From the guy’s own mouth.
There is nothing in this that reflects the title. It’s nothing more than passive propaganda. They are relying on people to just read the title and not open the link.
What is actually said is:
And let me just end by saying that this reflects the political reality that nations are sovereign. Nations decide themselves, and Ukraine has of course the right to decide its own path. And it’s up to Ukraine and NATO Allies to decide when Ukraine becomes a member. Russia cannot veto membership for any sovereign independent state in Europe.
Actually he also said (in the link):
“The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.”
“If you don’t promise to stop making new friends, I’m going to kill another one.”
Some Presidents should stick to declaring only things they have control over.
Some NATO officials should stick to avoiding nuclear holocaust over some theoretical pissing contest.
There is only one country that is constantly threatening a nuclear attack. That country is not in NATO.
You are mistaken. The US is in NATO. Unless you mean to tell me their 1000 military bases encircling Russia and China are somehow not a provocation?
So you would be ok if Turkey says “we only invaded those greek islands because they had greek military bases in them”? I am just wondering, since when having military bases(your own or of allies), in your own sovereign, internationally recognized territory is an acceptable casus belli for you.
Would you be ok if the US invaded Cuba, if Cuba had russian bases? Is this what you are saying? How something like this justifies invasion?
Name them?
Name 1000 military bases? How about viewing the major ones: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyafNUuWIAA_Iz9.jpg
Of course you’ll now say there’s something wrong with the picture and lalala your way out.
There is only one country that used nukes against a live target, ever, and they did it twice, to civilian population centers in the middle of active peace negotiations.
There is only one country with nuclear capabilities deployed in over 80 countries under its direct control. There is only one country that has unilaterally pulled out of every nuclear treaty in history. There is only one country that publishes news articles about and has leadership in press conferences talking about winning nuclear war and about developing mini nukes. There is only one country working to undermine the MAD doctrine. There is only one country that just sent a nuclear-armed submarine to one its vassal states as a show of willingness.
ah yes because ww2 was a happy time for all and no other countries did anything compared to that. smart.
There is only one country that just sent a nuclear-armed submarine to one its vassal states as a show of willingness.
the russians literally lost so many nuclear subs in non native waters that the cia tried to grab one with a oversized arcade shop claw.
No other country in the history of humanity dropped nukes outside of tests. No other country nukes civilians. No other country nukes civilians in a country that was surrendering. There is no way around it.
I’m not talking about the existence of subs in non-native waters. I’m talking about surfacing a sub and announcing it’s presence in South Korea as a sabre rattle. Russia didn’t surface subs off the coast of Florida, it didn’t surface subs in a port in Mexico. Because Russia isn’t trying to get in a war with the USA. It’s the USA that keeps expanding its military presence every year, believing it has the mandate to establish a command center for each region of the planet, using slogans like “the border is everywhere” to organize it’s border patrol, and expanding the presence of its nuclear capabilities into 80+ countries.
No, there is no comparison.
They dropped a bomb on a nation that was guilty of murdering up to 10m people. They were also not the initial aggressive beligerant. They do not have control with 80 nations, they have a non aggression pact. Yep, there are parts of the US media that is screwed up. That comes with free press. Does Russia have a free press? There is only one country that is looking to test out the mad doctrine, who also sent nuclear weapons to a vassal state: Russia.
this nuclear threat; is it in the room with you?
Just because you close your eyes to what is happening in the world, doesn’t mean the rest of us are blind too.
my brother in none, if they wanted to use nukes they would have. they know that their equipment is shit and that the us and relevant countries have like 10 different active systems for dealing with the 5 icbms what are actually functional.
us on the other hand… also china
Ofcourse. They dont want to start a nuclear war because their systems are shit… Yeah, I’m sure it’s nice inside the bubble you are living in.
Lol, chinamongering now.
what about 2014
This is so hilariously weak who did you think you would convince with this quote blatantly showing your title to be a lie. Lmao.
It’s not a lie, he literally said it in his speech.
Lol the absolute delusion of tankies. You’d be funny if you weren’t advocating for imperialistic cultural genocide.
That’s literally what you’re advocating for.
Lmao
The closest thing to the lie you wrote is the part where it says Putin demanded that NATO stop recognizing Ukraine as a sovereign country. So he’s invading Ukraine because NATO didn’t allow him to annex Ukraine Anschluss and annexation of Sudetenland style. And if you think that would help, remember that appeasing Putin over Georgia and, effectively, over Crimea and Donbass didn’t do shit to stop his aggression.
Besides the document implies what was already obvious, which is that, before the war, Ukraine wasn’t even going to be allowed into NATO any time soon, NATO countries just couldn’t sign an agreement that would limit Ukraine’s sovereignty.
What is the fascination with historically illiterate liberals trying to equate everything they don’t like to Hitler?
Putin invaded Ukraine, because he doesn’t want nukes 800 km from Moscow. If you don’t understand this, you don’t understand what is happening here.
“Everyone around me is arming themselves. Better stab the one that hasn’t got a weapon because I agreed to defend them a while back. That’ll fix it.”
What?
Invading a non-NATO country does not do anything whatsoever to counter NATO presence near Russia. Russia has already had a land border with NATO for twenty years. Thanks to Finland joining it also just got a lot bigger, because funnily enough if Russia starts throwing its weight around everyone else is going to look for security from Russia. This reasoning doesn’t even explain Russia’s invasion, never mind justify it
Are you pretending that Ukraine did not apply for NATO membership, or that NATO stated they were planning to place nukes there (which we only learned because Ukraine was cheering it on Twitter)?
I’m not pretending anything. I’m saying that even if Russia fully annexed Ukraine in 24 hours flat, it wouldn’t move NATO’s borders any further away from Russia.
Putin invaded because he’s an autocratic piece of shit that wants to bully smaller countries into increasing his own wealth and power. I don’t expect a pro Kremlin stooge to understand anything happening here though.
Sure, geopolitics doesn’t exist, it’s all just this craaaaaayzee guy twirling his evil mustache. It’s not like the Russian government has any say, or that almost everyone in it not only support the SMO but many of them think Putin is too soft on Ukraine and should commit much more of their military to it. It’s not like over 70% of the Russian public also supports the SMO and Putin’s decisions, saying they should never make concessions to return the Donbas to Ukraine. I mean, it’s not like most of the world aside from the propaganda-steeped NATO countries also side with Russia with respect to the conflict. Nope. None of that. Just that one maniacal power hungry madman!
https://www.eiu.com/n/russia-can-count-on-support-from-many-developing-countries/
lol. It’s so funny these fucking dweebs who can’t understand the world beyond a simplistic Saturday-morning-cartoon kind of analysis with Putin being this season’s villain.
It’s Boris and Natasha from the Rocky Bullwinkle show. That’s all it is to these idiots.
Yet you are willing to support the actual fascists who were bombing their own people, in the most corrupt country in Europe. I wouldn’t expect an Andrews Air Base resident to understand.
Literally nowhere in these remarks does it say “expansion” or “expansionism”…
Ahh yes you have to think a bit critically.
What he’s saying is that Putin doesn’t get to dictate which alliances sovereign nations can join.
“The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.”
“Don’t allow others to join your defense pact or we’ll demonstrate why it’s necessary in the first place.”
Perfectly sane logic. Nothing strange.
Cuba had the same thing happen to them in the 60’s.
Oh good you already understand why it’s Bad Actually™ then
You mean that it’s bad that the USA threatened to nuke Russia when Russia was putting missiles in Cuba, or when Russia invaded Ukraine when USA said they would put missiles in Ukraine? Was it bad the USA threatened nuclear war because Cuba wanted to defend itself from a belligerent neighbour? Russia backed off, should the US back off from Ukraine? Or “this is different”.
Was it bad that Russia threatened nuclear way because Ukraine wanted to defend itself from a belligerent neighbour?
The USA doing bad things in the past doesn’t make it alright for Russia to do the same bad shit.
It isn’t a team sport. We aren’t children. Both can, in fact, be wrong, and neither justifies the other.
So you’re alright with the way the US treats Cuba then? The USA did make it very clear that they wouldn’t tolerate Warsaw Pact expansionism near their borders, and Cuba could have just surrendered after the Bay of Pigs invasion to avoid all the negative consequences that have resulted from Cuba’s decision to oppose the freedom loving USA.
Russia has made it very clear they don’t want NATO expansionism near its borders.
Yeah and the US made it very clear that they didn’t want USSR expansionism near their borders. Doesn’t make what the US has done to Cuba alright, just like it doesn’t make what Russia has done in Ukraine alright.
And Ukraine was already invaded…
Yes, in 2004 and 2014 by covert and “diplomatic” US forces.
This has never been about sovereignty and always about maintaining hegemonic imperialist control.
Seems you are referring to the Orange Revolution and the revolution of dignity.
If you claim these events are purely because of US influences, than you’ve missed a lot of Russian details.
People who participated in these openly claim they were taking orders from the US embassy.
Not only that, elected and career US officials were present and active in the events.
If you’re trying to claim that these events were driven by “Russian interference,” I have some hacked voting machines to sell you.
Remind me, which country annexed a huge chunk of Ukraine in 2014?
The US effectively did. There’s no other explanation for why US elected and career officials were present in Ukraine during small and violent anti-government protests, and there’s no other explanation for how and why the US state department chose the next leader of Ukraine after the democratically elected and widely supported President Yanukovych was forced to flee in fear for his life. Ukraine for all practical purposes lost its sovereignty in February 2014.
If you’re talking about the small peninsula of Crimea, the residents of Crimea democratically chose to secede from Ukraine and rejoin Russia.
It’s not easy, but it’s very much worth taking some time to understand what sovereignty and democracy actually mean, both in theory and in practice.
No, the US effectively didn’t. Russia actually did. It’s truly incredible that you’re promoting the results of a referendum held by an invading military force as legitimate and then telling me that I don’t understand democracy. You can’t have democracy at gunpoint. Would you be defending an American-run referendum to see if Basra wanted to join the USA in 2003? Because that is what you’re doing right now.
A couple things wrong with your comment:
a) you are deflecting because you can’t answer
b) you are seriously comparing an outright unprovoked invasion from US into Iraq, with one where Russia is defending Russian-speaking people against a Nazi-un government that has been bombing them for 8 years.
c) even before the invasion, these people wanted to join up with Russia. They went all the way to Moscow multiple times to beg for Russia to intervene.
d) it is obvious you know next to nothing about Ukraine and its situation. You only know what the US state department has told you and you repeat the exact same talking points.
So a few things.
If the election weren’t legitimate, why do Crimeans still stand by the decision they supposedly made at gunpoint to this day? Why don’t they remember there being Russian soldiers being present during the referendum? Why would Ukrainian citizens be welcomed into Crimeans communities now if this had simply been a nationalist land grab? Why didn’t Ukraine invest in Crimean infrastructure and social services between 1991 and 2014? Why would Russia invest in that same infrastructure and social services post 2014? Why weren’t Russian citizens allowed to vote in the referendum, only Ukrainians with Crimean residency?
https://www.mintpressnews.com/return-russia-crimea-story-referendum-lives-since/262247
Comparing this situation to the relationship between the US and Iraq/Basra is grotesque and intellectually dishonest so there’s no point in discussing that further.
Tankies everywhere in this post lol
For real. They really fucking love Putin too, it’s pathetic.
Apparently leftism is when you support right-wing authoritarian capitalists lmao
Welcome, stay a while and chat with us. You can expand your horizons or you can go back to reddit where anti-imperialist analysis and opinion are censored.
Lmao I’m a leftist and was never censored in 12 years on reddit. Give me a break from your victim complex.
You shit stain tankies can keep on sucking authoritarian dick tho.“”“”““leftist””“”“”
Huzzah for US dominance in the world! Huzzah for nuclear escalation! Huzzah for NATO and global imperialism! Huzzah for Zelenski and all Ukrainian Nazis!
There now, you don’t have to feel so alone and surrounded by scary tankies.
It’s because this WorldNews community is hosted on lemmy.ml. There’s better alternatives on @lemmy.world and @kbin.social
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