tl/dr: email chains used as evidence in DOJ Google antitrust case show internal arguments about drops in # of searches, and how to increase them so that people see more ads. Search team wants to create better search results to keep people coming back.

Advertising team wants to find any way to make people search for as long and as often as possible (“increasing the journey length”) even if it means delivering less relevant search results.

You can actually read many of the trial documents here -
https://www.justice.gov/atr/us-and-plaintiff-states-v-google-llc-2020-trial-exhibits

this file was particularly interesting. https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-11/417557.pdf

  • theodewere@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    122
    ·
    1 year ago

    Advertising team wants to find any way to make people search for as long and as often as possible (“increasing the journey length”) even if it means delivering less relevant search results.

    i now understand what i’ve been seeing a whole lot better… any time marketing starts interacting directly with engineering, your tech company is in trouble…

    • Nommer@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      33
      ·
      1 year ago

      And this is why I consider advertisers leeches. Anything to get more crap shoved in our faces no matter what it costs us, not them.

  • snowe@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    101
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Well it sure does sound like advertising won doesn’t it. I completely stopped using Google it is so bad now.

      • oce 🐆@jlai.lu
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        20
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Legal getting in the way of engineering is usually a very good thing.

        • lycanrising@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          1 year ago

          software engineer in a medium-large public tech company, i agree. i can’t even imagine the amount of stress the legal team must be under to constantly be discovering what management and engineering have messed up this time…and discover the problem is 6 months old and if a regulator catches wind of it it’ll be painful.

          • oce 🐆@jlai.lu
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            10
            ·
            1 year ago

            I was actually thinking about the goal of those laws, protecting society from unbridled capitalist tech companies. The fear of regulators is only an intermediate tool.

            • lycanrising@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              i personally see them as different tools of the same end goal - wealth generation in a checked and sustainable manner. capitalist environments inspire innovation, but require boundaries set (regulators) and a political environment which is alert and aware of exploitation and can make the calls about what is or is not acceptable.

      • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        Constant minefield and multi-shift alliances.

        I lead web applications.

        Last year, I + legal team was in a war with ad team because they were whining about tracking during the CCPA rollout.

        This year, it’s me + ad vs legal team over them wanting to slap compliance notices everywhere that affects user experience.

  • Tygr@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    30
    ·
    1 year ago

    After reading all this stuff, I stopped advertising and have started going to independent sources for traffic. Advertising on podcasts has been fruitful.

    I’m kinda done advertising on social media and search. It all feels… ick

      • Tygr@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        16
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Yeah, I see why, it’s the same audience. Your first ad run will be your biggest performer and it diminishes from there.

        You have to cast wider and be infrequent with your ads. It’s been a learning curve.

        There’s a lot of traffic out there to find but yeah, a lot of that traffic is from social and search, which gives you as an advertiser 3rd tier quality results if you advertise on websites.

        Having to get creative. Need to pay sites that monitor traffic and find the ones that get a lot of direct traffic. Now getting an ad on those sites has been tough too. It’s been a grind but worth it so far.

  • Norgur@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    30
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    I’ve decided to just pay Kagi for my search. I had completely forgotten how it feels to search somethingand actually find it

  • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    17
    ·
    1 year ago

    Up next: should you cut off and eat your own limbs if you’re really hungry?

    No, I mean like, really hungry.

      • deur@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        I think the blood loss and infection risk may be a problem. I think they may have speculated about it in academia though, not sure what the outcome was.

        • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          ·
          1 year ago

          Yeah, and if you’re that hungry that the meat would save your life, you’re in no state to recover from such a devastating wound. Your immune system and ability to generate new blood would be severely compromised.

          And then there’s the added mental toll of coping with the lost limb and having to learn to use it, whilst you’re already dizzy from hunger and blood loss, so any chances at other food would be much harder to exploit.

          I think objectively it would make your situation much worse.