In the speech in support of the ceasefire resolution, the Democratic Florida state representative Angie Nixon said: “We are at 10,000 dead Palestinians. How many will be enough?”
“All of them,” Michelle Salzman called in reply.
wow
The remarks came during a debate in the state legislature about calling for a ceasefire in Israel’s invasion of Gaza, which has so far killed more than 10,000 Palestinians, many of whom are children. The assault came after Hamas fighters attacked Israel from Gaza, killing at least 1,400 people and taking more than 200 hostage.
…
The Florida state house later voted 104-2 to reject Nixon’s resolution.
The resolution only called for a ceasefire?
On Thursday, Joe Biden said there was “no possibility” of a ceasefire.
The last bit you quoted about Biden is referring to statements he made about Biden asking Netanyahu about the possibility of a ceasefire and that Bibi told Biden there is none.
This is the correct answer. There will be no cease fire until, at minimum, the hostages are released. The other problem that the Israelis have is that there’s no evidence that Hamas has any intention of honoring a cease fire as they’ve willingly violated many such agreements in the past.
I don’t have a strong opinion as to what the correct choice is here for Israel, I’m simply stating the facts as they relate to the possibility of a cease fire.
If he wasn’t, he’s be called an antisemitic jew hater for daring question the Israeli narrative. Anything less than full throated support is akin to supporting Hamas according to a very large amount of stupid and/or intellectually dishonest people.
Reagan was seriously pro-Israel and started the whole US-supported Israeli military funding. source
Jen Kirby -
You mentioned that the United States had a big investment in the Iron Dome. Why is that — what’s the US’s stake in this?
Jean-Loup Samaan -
Well, first, historically, the US started cooperating with Israel on air defense in the 1980s. So when missile defense became a significant component of defense investment in the US, Israel was very quickly involved. There’s a history of close ties between both countries in that field. So it would seem, in a sense, natural that a consequence of that is to support something like Iron Dome.
I think it was around the end of Obama’s first term, in 2012, that the US put a stronger emphasis on Iron Dome in terms of budgeting. I believe it was probably not just the politics behind it, but also the strategic assessment that the priority is to protect and to strengthen the defense of Israel vis-à-vis these types of rockets.
Started? How geopolitically ignorant are you? A considerable portion of the IDF’s armaments (including over 100 fighter jets) during the Yom Kippur War were flown in from the US. This was seven years before Reagan. The entirety of Israel’s existence has just been the US and France dumping weapons. (Israel didn’t indigenously make it’s nuclear weapons, they came from France’s nuclear projects, just like how the Kfir wasn’t built using Israel’s non-existent aerospace industry).
I can smash on a keyboard and then write a citation to whatever nonsense comes. An intelligent person cross-references it with well established facts, and then decides if it’s probably true.
The idea that US support for Israel started in the 80s is refuted by hundreds of data points in Israeli history.
“It’s rude and uncalled for”
It’s totally called for. You could literally have read the Wikipedia on history of modern Israel and seen that it was patently false.
What do you think would happen to Israel if Biden came out and said “we will no longer defend Israel, everybody go nuts”?
Lebanon and Iran and Qatar and Yemen and Iraq and Afghanistan and Turkey and Egypt and maybe even Russia would obliterate them. Israel is only able to exist because the US gives it unconditional support. Hence, the 51st state - an attack on Israel is an attack on the US.
Lebanon and Iran and Qatar and Yemen and Iraq and Afghanistan and Turkey and Egypt and maybe even Russia would obliterate them.
I have serious doubts as to the ability of some of these countries to be able to match up to Israel militarily, even aside from having other things to worry about at the moment - Russia in particular does not have the privilege of fighting two wars right now.
There’s also the fact that Israel is a nuclear power - they almost used their nukes in the Yom Kippur war, which is what prompted the US to actually start resupplying them. If an Arab coalition were to attack Israel now (especially with Netanyahu in power), there is zero chance that they wouldn’t actually do it this time, and everyone knows this. No one in their right mind would try and pressure Israel to that extent, and most foreign powers would be highly motivated to do whatever it took to make sure that didn’t happen.
Finally, if the US were to leave Israel alone, China would probably step right in to fill that void, and would be well-suited for it too, given that they have relatively good relations with most of the Arab nations (IIRC). So not only would the US lose a massive channel of influence in the region, they’d be allowing their largest geopolitical rival to consolidate their influence in the region as well - wouldn’t Biden be absolutely raked over the coals for that?
wouldn’t Biden be absolutely raked over the coals for that?
Ignoring all your speculation about Israel’s strength (I’m highly skeptical they could actually survive modern warfare - they have drone pilots, not infantry lol) he absolutely would. There’s a huge portion of the electorate that absolutely loves Israel and supports their genocide.
That’s not really a good reason to continue supporting them.
I’m highly skeptical they could actually survive modern warfare - they have drone pilots, not infantry lol
What gave you that impression? AFAIK the IDF is one of the best trained militaries in the world, and certainly better than most of their enemies - that’s one of the reasons why the casualty numbers during Yom Kippur were so lopsided in their favor despite being caught with their pants down. Plus, it’s not just drones (they don’t even use those for actual combat) - they have arguably the strongest Air Force in the region, rivaled only by Egypt, and Israel has a distinct technological advantage. The IDF haven’t done well as aggressors, but defensively they punch well above their weight class - you’d hope so, given that they spend over 5% of their annual GDP on defence.
That’s not really a good reason to continue supporting them.
If he loses the next election, do you think whoever the GOP gets in will be better for Palestine? As it stands, Biden has courted Israeli favor less than I expected (current events notwithstanding), probably because Democrats were majority pro-Palestine for the first time in 20 years. He’s already said that he wants Israel out of the West Bank (even before October 7th) and that, and it sounds like he’s been applying some pressure in that regard.
That said, I do think he’s been a bit too passive thus far, and while I have my speculations as to why that is, I don’t see how any of them could justify the apparent lack of push back. A complete ending of relations is out of the question, but he should be able to push for more restraint, and as far as I can see it would be in his best interest to do so. Unless of course what we’re seeing now is the restrained version, which doesn’t really bear thinking about.
wow
The resolution only called for a ceasefire?
I’m ootl on that.
The last bit you quoted about Biden is referring to statements he made about Biden asking Netanyahu about the possibility of a ceasefire and that Bibi told Biden there is none.
What are you saying? The article links to this:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/11/09/remarks-by-president-biden-before-marine-one-departure-39/
Q (Inaudible) Gaza ceasefire, Mr. President?
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me?
Q What are the chances of a Gaza ceasefire?
THE PRESIDENT: None. No possibility.
Q Any update on getting hostages out?
THE PRESIDENT: We’re still optimistic.
Q What’s the — what’s the delay on getting more hostages?
Q What’s your message to the families of the hostages in Gaza?
THE PRESIDENT: We’re not going to stop until we get them out.
Q How confident are you that you will get them out?
Q What’s been the delay?
Q Mr. President, are the retaliatory strikes working? Mr. President, are the retaliatory strikes working in the Middle East?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. I mean, they’re — they’re working in the sense that we’re hitting the targets they’re seeking.
Yes, there’s no possibility because he’s asked and was tolled no possibility.
This is the correct answer. There will be no cease fire until, at minimum, the hostages are released. The other problem that the Israelis have is that there’s no evidence that Hamas has any intention of honoring a cease fire as they’ve willingly violated many such agreements in the past.
I don’t have a strong opinion as to what the correct choice is here for Israel, I’m simply stating the facts as they relate to the possibility of a cease fire.
deleted by creator
why tf is a state legislature even wasting time on this?
they should be contacting their elected representatives in congress like anyone else.
Only ones picking up the phones I imagine. You should attend a local school board meeting and listen to all the
“This is state level policy”
“I don’t care do something about it!”
People are raising their concerns with the powers that be and they aren’t listening so they go find someone with some power and yell at them.
And yeah this is not me showing contempt. I get it fully.
Biden is ride-or-die for Israel, basically.
If he wasn’t, he’s be called an antisemitic jew hater for daring question the Israeli narrative. Anything less than full throated support is akin to supporting Hamas according to a very large amount of stupid and/or intellectually dishonest people.
You aren’t wrong, but he’s been ride-or-die for Israel for his entire career. He’s the most pro-Israel president we’ve ever had.
Reagan was seriously pro-Israel and started the whole US-supported Israeli military funding. source
deleted by creator
You should read the OT. His track record is about as good as your average cop, if that.
Started? How geopolitically ignorant are you? A considerable portion of the IDF’s armaments (including over 100 fighter jets) during the Yom Kippur War were flown in from the US. This was seven years before Reagan. The entirety of Israel’s existence has just been the US and France dumping weapons. (Israel didn’t indigenously make it’s nuclear weapons, they came from France’s nuclear projects, just like how the Kfir wasn’t built using Israel’s non-existent aerospace industry).
I quoted a source. If you don’t agree with it, quote another.
And please don’t call me ignorant. It’s rude and uncalled for.
“I quoted a source”
I can smash on a keyboard and then write a citation to whatever nonsense comes. An intelligent person cross-references it with well established facts, and then decides if it’s probably true.
The idea that US support for Israel started in the 80s is refuted by hundreds of data points in Israeli history.
“It’s rude and uncalled for”
It’s totally called for. You could literally have read the Wikipedia on history of modern Israel and seen that it was patently false.
Okay, so Biden is the most pro-Israel president since Reagan lol
My point stands.
Since when is Biden the President of Israel?
Israel is the 51st state, Biden could end this war tomorrow if he wanted.
What fantasy land are you living in? Shapirostan?
What do you think would happen to Israel if Biden came out and said “we will no longer defend Israel, everybody go nuts”?
Lebanon and Iran and Qatar and Yemen and Iraq and Afghanistan and Turkey and Egypt and maybe even Russia would obliterate them. Israel is only able to exist because the US gives it unconditional support. Hence, the 51st state - an attack on Israel is an attack on the US.
I have serious doubts as to the ability of some of these countries to be able to match up to Israel militarily, even aside from having other things to worry about at the moment - Russia in particular does not have the privilege of fighting two wars right now.
There’s also the fact that Israel is a nuclear power - they almost used their nukes in the Yom Kippur war, which is what prompted the US to actually start resupplying them. If an Arab coalition were to attack Israel now (especially with Netanyahu in power), there is zero chance that they wouldn’t actually do it this time, and everyone knows this. No one in their right mind would try and pressure Israel to that extent, and most foreign powers would be highly motivated to do whatever it took to make sure that didn’t happen.
Finally, if the US were to leave Israel alone, China would probably step right in to fill that void, and would be well-suited for it too, given that they have relatively good relations with most of the Arab nations (IIRC). So not only would the US lose a massive channel of influence in the region, they’d be allowing their largest geopolitical rival to consolidate their influence in the region as well - wouldn’t Biden be absolutely raked over the coals for that?
it’d be political suicide.
deleted by creator
It’s still clearly an option. You’d think an ancient men would care more about stopping genocide than his own career…
Ignoring all your speculation about Israel’s strength (I’m highly skeptical they could actually survive modern warfare - they have drone pilots, not infantry lol) he absolutely would. There’s a huge portion of the electorate that absolutely loves Israel and supports their genocide.
That’s not really a good reason to continue supporting them.
What gave you that impression? AFAIK the IDF is one of the best trained militaries in the world, and certainly better than most of their enemies - that’s one of the reasons why the casualty numbers during Yom Kippur were so lopsided in their favor despite being caught with their pants down. Plus, it’s not just drones (they don’t even use those for actual combat) - they have arguably the strongest Air Force in the region, rivaled only by Egypt, and Israel has a distinct technological advantage. The IDF haven’t done well as aggressors, but defensively they punch well above their weight class - you’d hope so, given that they spend over 5% of their annual GDP on defence.
If he loses the next election, do you think whoever the GOP gets in will be better for Palestine? As it stands, Biden has courted Israeli favor less than I expected (current events notwithstanding), probably because Democrats were majority pro-Palestine for the first time in 20 years. He’s already said that he wants Israel out of the West Bank (even before October 7th) and that, and it sounds like he’s been applying some pressure in that regard.
That said, I do think he’s been a bit too passive thus far, and while I have my speculations as to why that is, I don’t see how any of them could justify the apparent lack of push back. A complete ending of relations is out of the question, but he should be able to push for more restraint, and as far as I can see it would be in his best interest to do so. Unless of course what we’re seeing now is the restrained version, which doesn’t really bear thinking about.
deleted by creator
Yup, but because daddy has aircraft carriers in the gulf it’s fine. The 51st state is safe.