- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Neowin noticed that Microsoft has updated a help document about what it means if you’re using an unsupported version of Windows (spoiler alert: if you’re online at all, it’s a huge security risk), which currently means PCs running Windows 8.1 (or 8) and Windows 7, or earlier.
It’s worth noting, however, that this will also be the case for Windows 10 devices in a year’s time if their owners don’t take any action, as the end of support rolls around for that OS in October 2025.
Microsoft’s article takes the form of a short discussion followed by a FAQ, and the main update applied to the document pertains to the options for staying supported with Windows, with a new choice added here: ‘Recommended: New PC with Windows 11.’
So, this is Microsoft’s primary recommendation if your unsupported PC isn’t up to scratch, hardware-wise, for Windows 11 – get a new computer.
Given that, it’d be nice to see Microsoft working towards a solution in respect of somewhat newer PCs, which goes somewhere down the path of tackling some of the alarming stats we’ve heard about the number of Windows 10 machines heading to landfill in the future. This is a potential environmental disaster that could see hundreds of millions of PCs lumped unceremoniously on the scrapheap.
And ever since those concerns have been raised, we haven’t heard anything from Microsoft as to how they might be mitigated. What Windows 10 users (who can’t, or won’t, upgrade) can do is pay for extended support beyond October 2025 – but that could turn out to be an expensive way to go, particularly beyond the first year if Microsoft’s previous pricing in these schemes is anything to go by.
Logically, then, Microsoft needs to be looking at a way of keeping Windows 10 alive – for those totally blocked by Windows 11’s more demanding requirements on the security front and elsewhere – which works out to be way more cost-friendly for users, in an effort to save what might be a much heavier price to pay for the planet. In short, ‘buy a new PC’ will soon not be the answer we need frontloaded here, and pushing folks to make a purchase of a new computer is already a very dubious first port of call given what we’re facing down the road.
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“Use linux instead”.
Oh okay, thanks for the awesome suggestion Microsoft.
I just installed Mint to an external SSD this weekend to try and get my grandma to try it out. I really don’t want her scared into thinking she needs to go out and waste a few hundred on a new laptop.
Did the same for my parents earlier this year. I downloaded a Windows 10 theme for Mint so it felt and looked more Windowsy for them.
It’s been great for them. One piece of advice, make sure you sit down with your grandma after installing it and have her do everything she normally does on Windows.
Make sure all the shortcuts and bookmarks are in the same spots and called the same things.
I think it might be worth developing some kind of Linux installer on place that is capable of removing Windows and replace it with some Linux flavor. Just one USB, some space in your disk and Linux is installed without data loss
The problem with this is primarily that windows uses NTFS as it’s filesystem. Being proprietary, NTFS has never played well with Linux and installing it to an NTFS partition is regarded as a genuinely terrible idea. Converting partitions safely is nearly impossible to do in place.
I have the opposite opinion … I have one system of mine that has Win10 because I need it for one piece of software … and I absolutely do not want to upgrade to 11 even though I get almost daily reminders that I can.
Once I stop using the software I have for Win10 … I’m deleting the OS and installing Linux
The LTSC for Windows 10 should be up to date until 2032, just in case you do need it for the software.
LTSC? Edit: Long Term Servicing Channel. A windows enterprise version from what I gather Edit2: only the IoT LTSC version will be supported up to 2032 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-iot-enterprise-ltsc-2021
Correct, however it does have all the core functions you’d need. As long as you’re okay activating it Through ways I’d only be willing to describe to you at length through DM.
There’s a really good article on Rentry.co for setting up Win10 LTSC. Though as you say, here’s not the place for that.
I remember having trouble installing software from Microsoft Store, (there’s apparently a solution for that, but it didn’t work for me) but otherwise it’s a perfectly normal Windows 10 installation, just without any bloat.
FYI, there are registry keys you can set to stop it from trying to upgrade. They are strong policy settings that Microsoft completely respects, for now at least.
FYI, there are registry keys you can set to stop it from trying to upgrade.
Can I do this for Windows 11? If so which keys
Yes. See: https://www.elevenforum.com/t/specify-target-feature-update-version-in-windows-11.3811/
Or try InControl if you can’t get the above to work.
Home labs everywhere will soon have super cheap hardware options from PCs that can’t update to Windows 11 but are capable of running multiple virtual machines (like windows 11).
Six to midnight over here. Keep talking.
I wish I wish plzplzplzplz
There is now a workaround for Windows 11’s TPM 2.0 requirement built straight into Rufus.
You can just check the box and it will put the necessary code to circumvent the requirement on the bootable USB.
My understanding is that 24H2 crashes if you try that. Microsoft is starting to build their OS around the TPM, so that work around is bound to stop being helpful. I decided a few years ago to stop fighting Microsoft and do what they are asking me to do, stop using Windows.
It crashes if you try the previous workaround. This new workaround made by the creator of Rufus still works.
It’s a game of cat and mouse. I’d be willing if I needed to use win11 myself but for my parents it’s either gonna be Linux or a new computer
Agreed, I’m on fedora myself but I like to let people know there’s options
I’m running AntiX Linux on a shitty 2010 netbook and it runs like a champ. Intel Atom and 2gb RAM.
We need svelter OSs, not new computers.
Waiting for the army of MS shills coming to tell you that they can’t possibly use Linux because of the myriad high end professional-grade software they use which means absolutely no one could ever go near Linux either. Because that’s really important when it comes to getting more life out of your shitty 2gb Atom netbook
The thing is that there are different target groups here that seem to disconnect. The gamers and tech dudes who want/have all the latest hardware and want to play every game maxed out aren’t the people affected, yet somehow they’re the ones who chime in for these discussions.
My low end thinkpad from 2013 doesn’t need windows on it for any reason, so why bother being offended that it now can’t have a supported version?
I think the big scare is just common questions like… what happens to all of content saved, will it still be accessible? What happens to my Outlook email that my nephew set up? What happens to subscriptions, will my VPN subscription work on Linux? What sort of device management does it have, can I link up my TV the same way?
I have an old Atom tablet with 2 GB RAM capable of running Linux with the generic Linux kernel from any genetic distribution. Granted, I’ve never tried AntiX. How do you manage? Each time I’ve tried Linux in this tablet, it honestly runs like crap.
For basic stuff like what’s done in a browser I use the Falkon Browser. Very light weight. I will say it sucks for video acceleration though. 480p Max.
I use it for YouTube, emails, word processing with libreoffice. Runs SNES emulators quite well too.
Thank you for sharing those tips. Do you use a Desktop Environment (I’m thinking something barebones like lxqt) or a Window Manager (in this case, which one)?
IceWM
It’s going to be real funny when a bunch of people that don’t care much about tech shrug this off and everyone else ends up having to deal with some massive botnet a few years down the line.
why write better software when you can simply tell the customer to buy better hardware?
I think when they bought Bethesda they also let Todd Howard take over their statements.
windows 11 is a next generation experience. microsoft teams now has 16 times the detail
EU should just go and tell Microsoft that either they will allow consumers to install Windows 11 on hardware that would have no trouble running it (they could even slap a warning that it’s not fully “supported”, like whatever), or tell the user that there’s an eco-friendly alternative: that is running Linux, with instructions on how to do so. Otherwise they just allow a monopoly to have disastrous impact on the environment.
I will be waiting for cheap perfectly in good shape PC thrown out due to the upgrade on eBay.
I’m entrenched in Apple devices but in love with Linux on embedded devices, VPS servers, etc. I remember the magic of my first Linux install (Red Hat Linux on a Windows 3.1-era IBM ThinkPad that ran Windows 2000 flawlessly), and I’m really considering picking up some midrange laptop for a desktop install of Linux.
Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10.
It’s all about Windows as a service
Windows isn’t dead, but the idea of version numbers could be
Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers
https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows
/agedlikemilk
And then they threw out windows 11 in what felt like 2 months from announcement to shipping
“Version numbers could be [dead]”
… Do they think version numbers don’t have a purpose, or that they’re just for marketing? It’s pretty helpful to know breaking changes vs non-breaking changes in a version number
The first obviously isn’t saying “this is the final version” it’s using “last” as in “latest”, and the others fall apart with the first.
Companies will bloviate on about how they care about the environment and want to reduce e-waste, but then do crap like this!
Machines that can’t run Win11 aren’t immediately obsolete. They can run earlier windows (even though support has ended or will eventually end), and Linux.
And while I sound like I’m defending Microsoft, this is no different than Apple not supporting older Intel chips on their new OS’s. The big complaint here is the idea that all these unsupported machines are automatically destined for the landfill which I strongly believe is not correct.
There are a few fundamental differences here.
One: the existing hardware isn’t lacking anything functional that the user requires. While it may be more secure implemented with TPM 2.0 its far from a hard requirement. After all bitlocker works on 10. The fact that you can presently work around it suggests the limitation is imposed from on high not a hardware requirement.
Two: The hardware isn’t all that old. General duty cycle on a phone is around 3 years, about 6 years on a PC. Apple has dropped support for 6 year old phones and 10 year old PC. Especially because intel continues to manufacturer a given CPU long after launch and OEMs continue to integrate them people are going to find machines that they bought new off the shelf within the last 3 years unsupported which unlike a 10 year old Mac feels like a rug pull.
Exactly this. It’s a completely arbitrary rug-pull made especially repugnant by the fact you can circumvent it quite easily with basically no loss of functionality.
While modding Win11 is a perfectly legit option for home users, it’s not for businesses - as such many, many business-spec computers will be “obsolete” once security updates for Win10 end.
Best you can hope for is that these computers pour into liquidation markets giving people the chance to buy decent quality PCs for cheap - but more likely they’ll become e-waste
Speaking of phones.
I just had to buy new ones recently for the older folks at home because of the lack of VOLTE support on their phones. Those phones were perfectly fine and adequate for their use case (basic call, message) and they wouldn’t have to change phones if it were not for the 3G network termination.
Now they have new phones with functions that they will never ever use.
VOLTE is a hard requirement. Continuing to support them would require entire installations all over the country to be repaired, maintained, and installed in support of hardware that was mostly 7-12 years old long past expected lifespan. It’s like the opposite of the Windows 11 thing.
I’m literally making lists this past month for all our clients to tell em the hundreds of computers they need to dispose of because of compliance issues with their 7th Gen PCs. Hundreds of PC’s will be trashed all because windows garbage bullshit.
They shouldn’t goto the trash but it’s not our call. Companies won’t repurpose them, won’t sell em as it’s too time consuming. So garbage they go. It’s just the path of least resistance.
There are third parties you can contact that will take pallets of old computers and do all the secure cleanup, sorting and selling for you. They can recover cash for you or do the recycling if needed.
Do you have any links to such companies? Slightly curious
There’s everything from places like http://www.houstoncomputerrecyclingcenter.co/services.html to https://desktopdisposal.com
Just depends on what services you need. I forgot which one we used at a previous job, but they actually would come out and pick up pallets of severs and desktops, destroy the hard drives and resell them, mostly in bulk.
Also don’t forget places like Free Geek - I’m glad to see my local one collaborating with YouTubers to get the word out but I’d like to see them do some more local outreach in the runup to W10 EOL (their computers often run Linux but encouraging people to switch to Linux is not their fight, imo). The donation might even be tax deductable.
Thanks Microsoft. I am going to have to upgrade my computer now. However, Windows isn’t being upgraded to 11 when it it comes to this.
How about I wipe the drive clean and install gentoo
It would be nice if they would stop pushing the update on computers that can’t run the update anyway.
