I have seen that the lemmy.ml mods will openly ban discussion about the CCP. I am wondering if the sh.itjust.works team allows criticism of government bodies, while still banning racism.
Any government or governing body should be open to criticism. They are suppose to be working for the people they serve. How is anyone going to know better if no one tells them what they are doing wrong? @[email protected] you have my support
Let’s find out: The CCP is committing genocide against the Uighur people
Adding the people of occupied Tibet to this.
Edited
*Occupied Tibet
Mao Zedong was a little piss baby who hid in the mountains while the KMT fought the Japanese.
The KMT was also bad and also definitely killed innocent people, in China and in Taiwan, see for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_28_incident
If I get banned, it wasn’t worth being here in the first place.
Agreed.
totally agree, the ccp are evil
This is why I didn’t make an account on lemmy.ml. I check to make sure instances I join have banned lemmygrad.
How do you check this? And is it banned via the instance “sh.itjust.works” for example, or is it banned via the “subreddit” equivalent, for want of the accurate name?
Scroll to the bottom of the page and click ‘instances’
Wow, there are so many instances. One day there’ll need to be some method of recording various biases within it.
I’m glad that’s not my responsibility!
The Lemmy project openly describes itself in its public documentation as anti-US, and was apparently founded around the idea that Reddit is fundamentally anti-China and pro-US: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/en/users/07-history-of-lemmy.html
The doc starts off talking about open source, but it quickly becomes clear that the Lemmy project is primarily political in nature.
To me this is concerning – what happens when largely pro-US Reddit refugees swarm a community (community in the general sense, not the Lemmy sense) which was intended by the founders to combat those peoples views? Sure, instances and people can choose to ignore the lemmy.ml instance, but the founders control the project at a much deeper level than that.
Personally I hope that alternative implementations that are compatible with Lemmy arise, totally outside of the influence of the original founders. Yes there is kbin, but I actually prefer the Lemmy model (from what I’ve seen so far), and I think there would only be benefits of having another high quality implementation which is totally separate yet totally compatible with the original Lemmy. It would make the whole thing more resilient, and could be fertile ground for future improvements to flourish.
Is that post really anti us and pro china though? To me it looks like anti pro us, and anti anti china.
Also, how do you see the founders controlling the project more? Especially at the “much deeper level”?
I’m a New Zealander living in The Netherlands, whether you choose to believe that or not.
Is that post really anti us and pro china though? To me it looks like anti pro us, and anti anti china.
I had already formed conclusions after reading through one of the founder’s comment histories (which I’d encourage), so my reading of it may have been biased. Either way it’s clear that the motivation driving them is, or at least was, largely political in nature.
Also, how do you see the founders controlling the project more? Especially at the “much deeper level”?
They own the github repo, they control what code gets committed, they control whether the project lives or dies really. They have the power to lose interest or decide to abandon the project, at which point the best hope the community has is that others pick it up. It’s not normally something I worry too much about with open source projects but again, strong geopolitical associations makes it feel precarious to me – if they don’t like where things are going, maybe they’d feel motivated to actively shut it down and discourage any peaceful transition of (code) ownership. Obviously this is all conjecture.
I’m a New Zealander living in The Netherlands, whether you choose to believe that or not.
I’m not sure why you think I’d have trouble believing that!
Couldn’t someone just fork it and update current servers with that fork and still keep all of the data though? It should still just work the same but just not be from a codebase controlled by the founders
That’s right. It’s a legitimate solution if the lead dev drives it into the ground. I don’t think lack of developers to fork or maintain it would be an issue. The only barrier I see is adoption of yet another platform. So in my mind, there’s always an option to just separate if Lemmy turns into one big tankie brigade. But forking is still a PITA and not ideal.
I don’t think using a fork would separate it into another platform. It would still be Lemmy. They would only need to separate of their code bases change so drastically between the two that going to other instances from the forked one starts breaking things. And even then workarounds could then be put in the former version so everything still plays nice.
Criticising pro-US doesn’t necessarily mean anti-US, you can be in the middle. Similarly, criticising anti-China doesn’t necessarily mean pro-China. Praising when something good was really done and criticising when something bad was really done, you can achieve at least some level of unbiased, rational and reasonable opinion.
There’s some talk about “a rise in anti-China posts that have hit Reddit lately” in https://join-lemmy.org/docs/en/users/07-history-of-lemmy.html, which struck me as odd.
Criticism of any governments should be allowed, especially authoritarian ones.
Yeah. This is kinda gaslighting:
We’ve also seen a rise in anti-China posts that have hit Reddit lately, and along with that comes anti-chinese racism,
No. Anti-china posts are not racist. We all hate Hitler Germany. Does that mean we are racist against Germans?
This sentence is fundamentaly flawed and shouldn’t exist in the documentation.
To push back on this a little: there’s definitely historical precedent for anti-regime sentiment bleeding over into anti-populace sentiment. To use your example of WWII, a lot of the anti-Japan sentiment bled over to anti-Japanese sentiment in the US in the form of internment camps.
Of course this was in the 1940s and I like to think that we’ve become a little bit less racist now. But I’ve noticed a lot more racist “jokes” on Reddit as anti-China sentiment has risen. Don’t get me wrong, we should still criticize China for its many human rights abuses and imperialistic practices as well as their violations of personal freedoms in their citizens etc. etc. but we should also be aware that these criticisms will be used by racists to justify their views and their actions, and call it out when it starts becoming more about the people than the government.
I think it’s because people nowadays are brought up to to ***follow ***what they read.
There is so much importance of memorising facts one is informed like a computer, then alongside this, are informed by media and abrihamic based religions repeatedly, that life is binary good and bad.
And as such, when an average reader attempts to criticise China, or Israel, UK or US present governmental practices for instance, they struggle to not generalise and lump government, people, race, and more all into one.
To educate massess of people into being able to criticise policy is a surefire way to get the masses to be critical of the practices of a present government, and get you out of power.
Binary identity politics however, will keep you there, in power, forever.
The Chinese Communist Party is absolutely not above criticism, but I always found the China obsession on reddit to be odd. While I don’t think it should be banned outright, I think y’all ought to consider what is motivating such a weird fetish (because frankly that is) for a specific government.
Yup, the flip side of the coin is that reddit really has a hate boner for China. The anti-CCP side has its own collection of nutty people, with a lot of the talking points tracing back to the
cultnice people that send out all those Shen Yun flyers.Shit’s complicated. That said, banning all criticism of the Chinese government isn’t the answer. We need to be smarter about the information that we digest.
It really isn’t that complicated. If Chinese politics is to be taken seriously, then there is a ton of low hanging liberal fruit for the picking. There is no reason for the Chinese legal system to not have public trial, for starters. There is no reason for China to censor the internet or speech or free association the way it does. And most importantly, there is no reason for China to not confront the very real sins of Mao and Deng in public.
I agree there is complexity which exists beyond this kind of stuff. But these are first principles for free society, and political agency, and should be taken seriously.
I’m sympathetic to what you listed, and it would be nice to see those things come to pass. I’m just cynical about anything that starts to sound like “regime change” after watching the US campaigns in the middle east these past couple decades.
Even though Tiananmen was a long time ago, there have been more recent cracks in the facade like the unrest over lingering COVID zero policies. It’s encouraging to know that people do have limits, but I don’t know how popular those sentiments are across the broader population.
It’s always nice to hear from someone else that recognizes how similar all this saber rattling is to the buildup to the first iraq war. All of a sudden after years of radio silence, everyone seems to care really deeply about the situation in another country.
Let’s see if this works: Adrian Zenz is a fascist.
Who is that? It’s a cool sci-fi name.
Founder of the shill think thank “Victims of Communism” and close collaborator of the Falun Gong cult who is behind the vast majority of the reports on the Uygur situation. You make of that what you will.
I read the article and I still can’t tell if we like the guy or not. Wikipedia makes it sound like he’s not pro-CCP.
Adrian Zenz is not pro-CCP but it seems like wildbus8979 probably is. It is worth pointing out that the Uighur situation is getting much different treatment by the media than genocides by western nations. Not to mention American imperialism etc.
That’s not really the point though. The point is, CCP censorship and wildbus8979 is at the very least, completely missing that point.
You can not be pro CPP and still question western propaganda, crazy huh? 🤷
I think the Arab League probably knows better than some fucking fascist and a weird ass cult. But you believe what you want… Not to say that I think things aren’t complex in the region, but I think the west purposefully misrepresents the reality.
I enjoyed watching Naomi «Sexy Cyborg» Wu’s videos in Xinjiang, her girlfriend is Uighur and they seemed to have no issues walking around.
Just want to point out, Naomi Wu is not the best person to point out when it comes to defending China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wu
https://sh.itjust.works/c/fucktheccp hasn’t been banned yet, so I guess yes.
Also lemmygrad is blocked here. As a person born in eastern block, fuck communism and tankies.
Yeah old eastern block ex-pat here too. Lived through two communist regimes (Ukraine via the USSR and Poland). Don’t want to go for a third.
I am staunchly Socialist though.
Never actually met an immigrant who actually stays here in Eastern Europe but yeah communist shouldn’t come back. But I don’t want capitalism either, this shits wack for our people and workers. Guess there isn’t a place to create new economic structures that could surpass both of them.
