I mean, there are two side of the argument.

Pragmatically, fleeing would save your life.

But ethically, it feels cowardly. (I’m not calling anyone a “coward”, its just how I internally feel about such an act, if I were the one doing it)

  • miridius@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    By leaving you are voting with your feet, one could argue it’s one of the most effective ways to fight. Staying means that in many ways you will be continuing to support the broken system

  • Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de
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    11 days ago

    I would need more to defend than just a Flag or Land area. I’m not killing myself or others for some line on a map. I.e. would it cause massive suffering for people if the war is lost?

    • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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      11 days ago

      If the United States goes down, you’ll have a corporate oligarchy with the most powerful military in world history.

      Just saying.

        • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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          11 days ago

          I’ve read a lot of modern fiction set in the 1930s. The authors almost always have a character who can’t leave Europe because they are caring for an elderly parent.

            • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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              10 days ago

              Book review time!

              Alan Furst has been writing WW2 era spy books for a while now. “Night Soldiers” is about a young Bulgarian fisherman whose brother is killed by a fascist mob. He gets recruited by the KGB and after training in Moscow he is sent to fight in the Spanish Civil War.

              Philip Kerr wrote a series of books about a Berlin private eye. Ex-cop Bernie Gunther is a WW1 veteran who loves Germany and who could have left any time, but stayed on until it was too late.

            • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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              10 days ago

              His Veep is just as bad…

              Also, I meant a calm transition from America being top dog to another power. Russia and China aren’t going to share power nicely and there are enough countries with nukes to make the whole thing really unstable.

              • AtHeartEngineer@lemmy.world
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                10 days ago

                Ya, I don’t think Vance would accomplish much, he definitely doesn’t have the same charisma or followers.

                True, things would definitely get interesting if the US wasn’t the top power. You don’t think China and Russia would team up? Or you think thats only because “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”?

                • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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                  10 days ago

                  I’m not an expert, but I don’t think Putin or anyone who succeeds him is going to be the co-operative type.

  • Onno (VK6FLAB)@lemmy.radio
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    11 days ago

    This question has nothing to do with the country and everything to do with the person. It’s entirely up to the individual how to approach this.

    For an external observer, the choice made by someone else is not for you to judge. You can never know what is inside the other person’s mind and whilst you might disagree, it’s their choice.

  • atomic peach@pawb.social
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    11 days ago

    It’s a very valid question and I think it comes down to an individual’s situation and circumstances. Not many can afford to actually leave or have family, friends, other ties to their home that they cannot emotionally afford to leave. Others struggle in how they can support efforts to fight for their rights or simply don’t have the physical or emotional reserves to make such a fight. I think the only truly ethically irresponsible answer would be to do the opposite that you are able and willing to do. I could never judge someone for leaving or for staying; it’s not really a mark of their character.

  • Wilco@lemm.ee
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    10 days ago

    This is apparently what the US wants. My family is seriously looking into moving to a different country. We don’t want to be stuck in the new modern nazi party country.

  • cattywampas@lemm.ee
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    11 days ago

    Stay and fight for it. Because what happens if and when shit goes south wherever your new home is? Just keep running?

    • ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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      11 days ago

      Well, apparantly, Lemmy is telling people to immediately flee the US.

      So like, I’m just wondering. What happens when every person left-of-center leaves? Do we just leave a bunch of nazis with the entire nuclear arsenal of the US?

  • SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works
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    11 days ago

    The US is a massive place. Yes the federal govt can suck but state and local governments are where you see the real day to day effects like roads, local businesses, utilities and parks.

    Sit in on a meeting (a lot of stuff is streamed thanks to covid). Get to know the people in your area and what they stand for. If you want make your voice heard however you choose and give them some perspective on how an upcoming decision effects you. You can vote wisely and build a community with them from the bottom up.

    You can have a surprising level of influence just by reminding people that voters exist and care enough to give input now and then.

  • Limonene@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    If you’re trans: Start making plans to flee. You don’t have to carry them out right now. But do get a passport, even if it has to have your deadname. Canada or Mexico probably wouldn’t accept a US refugee just for being trans right now, but that will change in the future.

    If you’re an immigrant, or even a permanent resident: It’s unsafe in the US right now. I wouldn’t fault you if you left today. However, everyone’s circumstances are different. Maybe you want to stay and support your spouse and kids who are citizens, and you’re willing to risk your life to do it. It depends on the circumstances.

    Anyone else: Stay and fight.

  • Fondots@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    I don’t think there’s any easy answer here.

    If you stay, are you able and willing to fight and to what degree under which circumstances? What do you have to offer? Will you be more of a liability than an asset? How do you weigh your personal safety and wellbeing or those of your family and friends against the country or world? What do your prospects look like in whatever country you choose to flee to?

  • Panamalt@sh.itjust.works
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    11 days ago

    Imagine someone keeps breaking into your house and shitting on your pillow. Do you move out and find a new house, or do you grab a baseball bat and beat the shit bandits ass?

    Both are valid options with positive and negative consequences. Which path we choose is largely determined by the value we personally place on our things and spaces. We tend to value our homes and families more, so it’s easier to choose the bat. But, it’s the exact same choice when your country goes sideways (or any difficult decision, really).

    Ask yourself; How valuable is the country, to you? How valuable is your role in its society, to you? How valuable is it that you stand up for your beliefs, to you? If you place no value on your country, then move on and feel good about taking care of yourself. If you value your country a lot, then stand and fight to the end. No one on the internet can answer these questions for you, and there is no right or wrong choice unless you decide there is.

    • acchariya@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      If it’s the police that keep breaking in and shitting on your pillow it would be best to move to a different town.

  • cobysev@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    This depends on a lot of factors. If you’re part of a targeted demographic due to race, gender, religion, etc., then it might be safer to flee before you draw attention to yourself.

    If you’re not a targeted demographic, then it might be best to stick around and stand up for your fellow citizens. But this could also lump you in with the targeted demographic and might eventually lead to your own persecution, so it’s a risky choice.

    Either way, I still advocate for standing up to any oppression or persecution going on in your home country. No one should ever lose their home to dictators and/or fascists.

    This is actually how a lot of states get divided politically. People see a place as a “red state” or a “blue state” and decide to either avoid them or move away if their political ideology doesn’t line up. But that just further entrenches the area into a political leaning. By sticking around and advocating for human rights and better community and respect, you can help prevent the splitting of communities and stop divisive concepts like fascism from forming.

    • ObtuseDoorFrame@lemm.ee
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      11 days ago

      I’m autistic and trying to figure out if autism is an at-risk minority group. It doesn’t help that I was extremely vocal on Reddit about how much I hate Trump and Musk. I deleted my account, but Reddit is now a fascist platform and would likely turn over my posts and email address to this administration without a second thought.

      I’m not sure what to do. I’m not sure if I could even leave at all, with my debilitating anxiety and trauma.

      • Dharma Curious (he/him)@slrpnk.net
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        10 days ago

        White. Male. Able bodied. Neurotypical. Christian (Catholics need not apply). Straight. Republican.

        If you or someone you know doesn’t fit each one of those, then they are at risk of persecution in the US.

        • ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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          10 days ago

          I mean, white women are not persecuted if they are rich. Heck, they could even get an abortion that will be covered up like the pregnancy never happened.

          Poor women, white or not, are fucked tho.

  • socsa@piefed.social
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    11 days ago

    America will bring down the entire western world. There is no option but to fight.