We dug into how American tipping culture got so broken, and the fight to fix it.
It turns out that your tips are subsidizing the payrolls of multi-billion dollar chains, while they pay their workers under minimum wage.
It’s a system rooted in slavery, and pushed by a wealthy restaurant owners onto the rest of us.
But there’s a growing movement to change it.
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How about just paying food service workers a living wage, so that tipping isn’t critical for basic survival?
No no, don’t you know that it is your responsibility as a customer to make sure other people’s employees make enough money to live? What are you, some kind of europoor?
Speaking for the rest of the world, who are saner, F%$^ your US uber etc software trying to normalise this toxic BS ‘culture’ in other countries.
People that get tips should make at least minimum wage like everyone else. The employer should not get to pay less because someone gets a tip.
I always try to tip in cash. First so the person getting the tip can decide if they want to declare it as income. Second so it goes where I intend it to go.
20% is a good tip. More is not necessary.
I always decline tipping on the screens.
Never pre-tip. Tipping should always happen after service. You won’t get a refund on that tip if the service is bad.
Edit: A word
My fear of not tipping before I get my food/product is the fear of a resentful employee tampering with it before I get it. So then I’m left in a situation of feeling like my food is being held hostage if I don’t give a tip. It really feels like a shakedown, and I don’t appreciate it. It has made me stop frequenting places that ask for a tip before I even get my food.
That doesn’t happen. The companies want you to think that happens, but anywhere that you’re tipping before receiving service is a place with employees that don’t get paid in tips individually. It’s either split evenly or the owner takes a large cut of what you “tip.” So the employees really don’t care enough to fuck with your food, which could get them fired or prosecuted.
Tips like that are an excuse for the owners not to pay their employees a fair wage and tell them during hiring they could make “up to x” amount.
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something that’s always bothered me when I see this brought up, but what’s stopping the businesses from managing all that for their employees themselves? it’s not like everyone doesn’t have the tech to find out gas prices around the area, and the estimated traffic distance and travel time on any map view. Hell, just tack that on as a service fee instead of the ¯\(ツ)/¯ they currently use it for.
this is all rhetorical, because of course it’s obvious why businesses don’t want to be more upfront about the final cost to the consumer, and keeping the employee blaming the customer for their bad take-home pay
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again, what’s stopping the outsourced app business from calculating the gas and tacking that onto the customer’s bill?
Nothing. In fact, they do that where I live. The same companies even. Uber eats etc.
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what I’m trying to get at is we have the ability to build software to automate the calculation and payout on all of this. If the problem is realtime opting-in of drivers in the area, solutions could be created if the businesses were motivated to be more upfront to both their employees and the customers
like have the customer give a price range they’re willing to pay for the gas, and have the software advertise to all drivers that would fit into that price range from their current locations, and show them up on the map to the customer with some dollar sign amount for their gas prices above their icons. if there isn’t any, the software would be able to notify the customer before the order is finalized. if no one eligible opts to pick up that order after a certain time frame, then that’s also a customer notification.
A lot of the problems being brought up could be solved with effort put towards engineering the software to make everything more upfront to everyone, but those businesses aren’t motivated to be more consumer-oriented and employee-friendly; that’s my main point in all this
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Sure, that seems reasonable to me. I rarely do food delivery so I was not really trying to address it with my comment above.
Edit: 2 words
Sorry, delivery drivers should just be paid a living wage too.
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This could be spun around to contract work where the company is offering each contractor a set amount of money to deliver each time. Again, there is no need for a customer to subsidize the companies pay
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How pathetic. So much mental gymnastics here to justify it all and avoid admitting that tipping to begin with is the problem.
Gentle request to still tip if you think service was bad. The employee could be having a bad day, something could be out of their hands, or even if they’re just a shitty worker, they can be let go after enough fuck ups. Denying someone their tip because you think it was “bad service” is part of that bullshit master-slave dynamic. Normal employers can’t deny wages if someone shows up and doesn’t do the work - they have to be fired or sent home
Gentle request to pay employees properly instead of shifting that burden to the customer and laughing on top of the pile of money you saved.
Denying someone their tip because the service was bad is the exact purpose of a tip. Making it anything else is exclusively helping shitty employers and literally no-one else.
Yeah, and tips are the thing shifting burden onto customers…so denying servers or whoever a tip as long as that system is in place just hurts employees, not employers. If you want to hurt employers then help employees unionize. They kinda need tips to build emergency funds and shit during that process, unless you want to go the route of voting unions as requirements in the meantime?
Edit: you could also not go to stores that rely on it to begin with
You’re seriously suggesting that the way we end tipping culture is to tip everyone even more for an indeterminate duration of time so the employees receiving those tips can… save up for strike funds to strike against tipped wages…?
If customers tipped so well that employees could make that kind of money, no one would be striking to end it. All you would have accomplished by this is twisting the arms of customers even harder than before. This is the exact opposite outcome everyone downvoting you is seeking.
If I’m being frank, I think the only way to truly rip off this bandage for good is to stop tipping, and squeezing employees. Make these jobs so unpalatable to work at that no one will willingly take one. Starve the employers that normalize subminimum wage of their labor pool, and either force them to adapt and offer living wages or drive their unviable business models out of business.
Of course, that solution is horrendously machiavellian, requiring that things get much worse before they get better. Far worse than any human with a drop of empathy would allow. So, yeah, while I do think it’s the most realistic answer, it’s obviously a bad answer.
The next best thing for customers to do is simply not give these places business, as you suggested in your edit. That’s my strategy right now. I do tip at expected rates when I am in such places, because I’m not an asshole, but I minimize my trips to them as much as possible.
More unions sounds like a great idea! It’s the less machiavellian and more organized version of the “drive the ones that don’t comply out of business” idea. I’m all in. But it’s unclear exactly how random passing customers should help create unions. All I can note is that expecting us to give more patronage to the business that has every incentive to bust the would-be union while also stopgapping one of the major issues that would drive the formation of the union in the first place by tipping harder is probably not the way.
It doesn’t matter who I hurt by not tipping. It matters that I help shitty employers keep up a shitty system if I do. Employees are being hurt whether I tip or not. But my money will not go into some exploitative asshole’s pocket, regardless of your appeals to emotion.
You’re telling me, the customer, that I should help the employees unionize? Are you all up to date with the respective responsibilities of parties here? I believe it’s the employees who should drive unionization, not customers who are entirely unable to do anything about it.
Also, was the suggestion that tips go into emergency funds meant seriously? Do you know how unions and emergency funds operate?
Most businesses don’t advocate that they’re exploiting their employees, so your suggestion to just “not go to stores that rely on it” falls a bit flat.
I’ve seen people too because their food came out slowly, even if it was hot then they got it… which is entirely beyond the control of the server, except if perhaps they lagged on turning in the order. Pretty lame if the place is just slammed and they end up doing twice the work for the same amount of tips.
Counterpoint. Never tip ever.
If you aren’t shopping or eating at establishments where employees rely on it, by all means
I think a minimum tip is a great idea.
Well, ideally employers just pay enough so it isn’t pushed onto customers.
Maybe even just call it a service charge like other places in the world.
Are you an actual idiot? How about the companies pay their employees instead of avoiding taxes like they do today?
Owners don’t want to charge more for the food that people eat at Restaurants fearing it will tip the scale and less people will eat there, so they lowball the menu prices, and leave earning up to each individual server for each individual table instead of paying wait staff a living wage. This is further exacerbated by serving staff being allowed to be paid far less than the meager minimum wage in most, but not all (CA) states.
I don’t believe that’s really true. Don’t get me wrong, I know they’ll raise the food prices. But it’s not because they’re using lower wages to buy better ingredients. Don’t let them convince you paying people a liveable wage isn’t possible. Somehow other countries all around the world are able to do it just fine.
It was never not broken. It’s always been broken and flawed. It simply went from bad to worse and SUDDENLY people wake up and realize it was stupid all along. The fact people ever bought into tipping of any kind and felt it was justifiable is pathetic. Anyone who defends tipping is an idiot. Paying fair wages, expecting the same service every time, and having clear prices makes way too much sense to ignore. Tipping has variability that makes no sense and is not justified.
It always amazes me how business owners are portrayed as greedy monsters instead of the pants pissing cowards they most likely are. If you need to raise the prices of your products to give your employees good wages, do it. And customers need to understand that better paid employees means higher prices.
That’s the thing. They don’t need to raise the prices to be able to give good wages, they just bribed all the politiciants to make restaurants to be excluded from minium wage requirement to able to pocket all the money themselves.
You make it sound like they’re pocketing millions a week, when the typical profit margins for restaurants are less than 5% and max out at 10%.
Fifty seven million over 22 years is pretty tame. Especially considering that the National Restaurant Association has forty thousand members. It would have only taken about seventy dollars a year per member to get to that total.
First of all, OpenSecrets only list public money as dark money is by definition not known. Secondly, they literally have the best deal possible so they have no reason to spend more money now. They are the only sector that has an exemption from minimum wage laws.
Whatever way you may want to present it they have enough money to pay fair wages. And if they didn’t they should close as not viable business venture.
Yet, they shouldn’t raise their menu prices because they should have enough money to cover additional wages? With a 5% profit margin? By your reckoning every restaurant in America should be out of business. Yet, you also want our restaurants to follow the European model which serve smaller portions at higher prices. I’ve said this before and I will say it again. The ills of the US corporations can be laid at the feet of the consumer. CEOs get extremely large salaries and bonuses because they’re the scapegoat. Consumers were satisfied with one person taking the blame for a systemic problem that would most likely continue after the poor bastard was fired, but hey at least the company heard you. Small wages for employees? Consumers won’t shop here unless we offer what they want for the cheapest price. Even when certain restaurants offered more transparency for why it costs more consumers complain about having to pay for such things as employee healthcare.
Yet, they shouldn’t raise their menu prices because they should have enough money to cover additional wages? With a 5% profit margin?
I’m not sure where are taking that 5% as it’s around 15% in 2023 and double or triple that for franchises.
By your reckoning every restaurant in America should be out of business.
No, but they should re-evaluate their business if they can’t afford to pay a fair wage for their employees like every other business on the planet. There are plenty of other sectors that operate on lower margines yet they manage to pair their employees fair wage without subsidizing it with tips.
Yet, you also want our restaurants to follow the European model which serve smaller portions at higher prices.
While it’s true that our US portions are typically larger the prices are also a lot higher. The same type of dinner in Europe on average costs around 3 times less while being 30% smaller. So this argument is pure nonsense.
The ills of the US corporations can be laid at the feet of the consumer. CEOs get extremely large salaries and bonuses because they’re the scapegoat.
No I’ll lay it where it belongs. At the feet of NRA and their lobbying. Like I mentioned previously, restaurants are the only sector that is exempt from the minimum wage laws. That is insane and it’s nice to see it starting to get reversed in multiple states. By the way, the same CEOs privately admit that their profit margins increased in states where minimum wage requirements were introduced…
Tip generously or stay home.
Preferably just stay home and stop giving money to this industry.
Customers unable to give their money to a business due to understaffing as a result of shit wages and people refusing to tip sends a much stronger message
No it doesn’t. It just hurts the workers.
Customers refusing to do business sends a message. If you still give the business your money they don’t give a fuck if their workers get tips.
And subsidising shit wages just helps employers keep up a shitty system that only they benefit from. Sorry if this sucks but maybe some workers should get behind this idea as well instead of always playing victim.
So stop going to places that expect tips! You don’t have to use these services. Just stop.
You just want to have your treats and give up nothing and pretend like you’re helping.
Okay, thanks for the advice but I already don’t frequent businesses that exploit their employees and you have no reason to assume I do.
You made the assumption I do just so you could get a snarky remark in, not to make a meaningful counterpoint.
I’m sure you don’t 🤫
But what I said applies to everyone - just refuse to do business with these places. Don’t give them your money and then refuse to tip. That’s psychotic lol
Yes, your incredulity certainly makes your argument much stronger. But postulating obvious platitudes is what really drives your point home.
Why? Never tip ever. Support unions and strikes.
Stop going to places that tip
You’re just helping their boss steal income from the mouths of people forced to serve you for poverty wages. If you actually gave a shit you’d stop giving their oppressors money in the first place. But you don’t. You want your treats.
The workers need to stand up to their employers. As long as you have waiters defending tipping culture with “But I make more money like this” it will not change
The workers don’t need you to bully them into standing up to their employers. That’s basically accelerationism - the idea that if the workers suffer enough they will be forced to fight back.
How about not tipping? I’m not American so maybe I misunderstand something, but it seems to me the obvious way to get rid of tipping culture is for lots of people agree to not tip - then employers would be forced to increase wages. It’s voluntary isn’t it?
We have too many morons who justify tipping and participate in it.
By not tipping you’re just punishing the workers. The employer still gets your money.
And in my state when restaurants started to struggle to find workers they just legalized child labor. Now kids as young as 14 can work for tips.
Just stop going to these businesses.
In the short term it might, but ultimately the moral burden is on the employers, it shouldn’t be pushed on to the customers. Stop going to those businesses is fine as well but I think it would have the same effect.
If you stop going to those businesses you aren’t partaking in the exploitation of workers, and furthermore, you aren’t literally giving money to the exploiters.
From the worker’s perspective there’s quite a difference between “I didn’t make tips today because no one came to our business” and “I didn’t make tips today and still had to work my ass off to serve no-tip customers”.
From the employer’s perspective, too, there’s a difference between “I can’t find anyone to work for poverty wages without tips” and “I can’t find anyone to buy my shit” even if both result in their business collapsing.
You aren’t going to change Applebee’s from the inside.
Well like I said, I’m not American so it’s not really my battle anyway. I’ve only heared about the broken tipping culture in the US, and it always surprises me that threads complaining about it are often still filled up with comments like “but make sure you still tip generously” when that sounds like the most counter-productive thing you can do to deal with the problem. That’s the extent of my observation.
That’s why I said we have to stop visiting these businesses in the first place - that’s what’s really counter productive, because it literally gives money to the businesses that exploit their workers.
But if you still do business there and then just refuse to tip, you are not hurting the business. You are only hurting the worker. Sure, maybe if the worker is hurt badly enough they’ll stop working there, but maybe they’re so fucking desperate that they’d rather work for $2.50/hr without tips than stay home.
It’s like, you could technically hurt these businesses if you slashed all the workers’s tires. Maybe don’t do that tho
Well there’s not much danger of me walking in to an Applebee’s, that would involve long and expensive flight.
Haha, you’re punishing the workers by not tipping, so therefore don’t go at all … which, is also not tipping.
Genius!
I’m not defending tipping, just laughing at ridiculous statements.
The point is to punish the employer dude
