Image transcript:
The “we are not the same” meme template, but here it says, “You want dense, walkable, transit-oriented cities because you love the vibrancy and convenience of urban life. I want dense, walkable, transit-oriented cities because I don’t want endless suburbs to encroach on the peace and tranquility of rural life. We are natural allies.”
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Also I would argue a lot of things people hate about cities and drive them to live in the country or exurbs are caused by an over abundance of cars.
Now add urban greening to the mix and that’s quite a spicy brew. I think a lot of people who prefer rural or exurban living today would be tempted by properly built cities.
Definitely. Cities aren’t loud; cars are loud. I’m convinced if some eccentric person built an entire car-free, transit-oriented city from the ground up, the vast majority of people would absolutely love living there. I don’t know a single person who doesn’t love a nice car-free street in the middle of a city.
Those car free streets are the best streets. I’ve always said they should just crack down in NYC and go full car ban overnight no warning
Cities are loud even without cars. People shouting. Music playing. Dogs barking. Sirens. And then there’s the light pollution.
And it’s not just the noise I dislike, it’s the constant presence of people. It stresses me out. I’d rather have a million bugs as my neighbors than a million people.
Sirens from what?
Emergency vehicles. Even without cars there will still be ambulances and fire engines.
I also didn’t mention delivery and garbage trucks, which are also incredibly loud and would also be in a car free city.
Oh, and air traffic.
I don’t think sirens need to be anywhere near as loud without cars. The only reason they are so loud currently is to be heard over the roar of the highway.
Will cities be as quiet as the countryside? Probably not. But they will be dramatically quieter than they are now. Not Just Bikes took some decibel measurements of urban areas with and without cars and the difference is pretty huge.
I don’t doubt that they’re a lot quieter without cars, since I’ve seen that video, too. But it won’t ever be enough for me, especially because as the city gets quieter I stop being bothered by the noise and start being worried other people are bothered by mine.
I’d recommend seeking therapeutical help, that’s a sign of paranoia.
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People are telling you your mind is different. It’s not. I enjoy visiting cities because I enjoy seeing and experiencing that. But I wouldn’t want to live there. It’s like you step outside your door and you are constantly seen, so you must act appropriately. You can’t fully relax that way.
I enjoy backpacking because of the solitude and closeness with nature. I enjoy more rural housing (not crazy rural… maybe an acre per home) for that same reason. I also don’t want to worry I’m bothering the neighbors inside my own home if I walk too loudly, or am watching a movie.
Lemmy loves compact cities and I see the arguments, but maybe you’d have had to grow up in one to really appreciate it.
I’m glad somebody gets it. Seeing and hearing other people and being seen and heard by them is uncomfortable for me.
Though an acre per house is still way, way, way too urban for me. My favorite home was over a mile down a dirt road and so far from anyone I didn’t see any other houses.
That felt safe.
Wait but this doesn’t necessarily mean you disagree with the post? You can still be a pastralist and support dense cities as a way to preserve rural areas which is what the post implies…
Totally. But there’s lots of urbanists out there who think I’m crazy for not wanting to see other people.
You must have a seriously “atypical” mind, then.
Hello I am that person. Not because it’s a car free street, but because there’s still a few thousand people nearby and no dirt under my toes and I can’t see the stars.
It’s a sad irony that people move out of the city because cars make the city unpleasant, then commute to the city by car.
What I hate about cities is crowds and people. I don’t think there’s a way to solve for that.
Sure for people like you, you might still prefer rural lifestyle. I don’t think it will be everyone. But I think there are lots of people who just want quiet, safety, and beauty and find those in rural areas. But cities could have those qualities too if we managed and designed them better.
Which would be great because then I will have even fewer neighbors.
Yeah, this is one area I think those who love cities and those who love countryside can agree. Better, more liveable, more compact cities with less sprawling suburbia will make life better for both groups.
Just don’t force me to drive into your downtown office with paid parking that’s often full just to sit at a desk and video-conference with people halfway across the country in the name of some misguided “return to office” mandate.
What’s worse:
don’t make me drive into your downtown office just to sit at a desk and video conference with people in the exact same building.
Is this actually a thing?
It’s often difficult to find meeting rooms with enough space, so sometimes all you can do is have everyone get their own 1-person phone room. Meeting in someone’s office isn’t a thing because nobody has personal offices anymore - it’s all “open concept” bullshit.
I generally ignore almost everything posted in this sub… but this has caught my attention. I’ll be watching your career with great interest.
Also make it safe public transport in which it can support the infrastructure of the population.
Ugh just build towers for people to live in and have lovely parks all around.
How about: change zoning laws to allow people to collectively decide what sort of housing they would like, and connect those places through complete streets that cater to multiple forms of transportation. Instead of the current suburban cookie-cutter approach of single family homes and car dependence.
I agree. I want to live in a big stone tower and have a huge beard and spend all day reading tomes and pondering orbs.
Stay way from the orbs, that’s how you end up forsaking reason for madness.
BEHOLD THE MADNESS OF THE COSMOS!
That sounds like literal hell to me to be filed into a card catalog like that.
If you like it that’s fine, but I’d hate to live in a sky scraper
Ooo dank.
Which cities do you think handle this well?
Swiss cities are quite small but they tend to be dense and have a quick transition to forest or farmland.
It’s not so much as city as a town, but this video on Brattleboro, Vermont makes it sound like quite a nice mix of dense urbanism + surrounding nature.
Basically any major city in Europe has this down already, or is close to it
São Paulo is in the top 10 of largest cities in the world, and we have an acceptably decent amount of protected natural spaces, both within the city and around it.
Mostly smaller college towns in rural areas.
I dont want to live in a dense mega city. I also dont want to live in a rural shitville. I want a happy medium
My town is that perfect medium (for me). It’s a small city as a bedroom community for a major city. I live in a single family home. I just got back from walking with my kid and dog down into the town center. We have a Common, some government buildings and businesses, mixed with higher density housing up to six stories, and a great walkable “main street” lined with shops and restaurants. This is clustered around a train station that is also a bus hub, taxi stand, bikes and scooters, and they’re just finishing a rail trail, that will eventually connect to a state-wide network
I have to admit I never took advantage of all of this until COViD. Suddenly we couldn’t drive anywhere nor go out anywhere crowded. So we made a habit of spending a weekend afternoon walking around enjoying the town - typically grab takeout from one of the many restaurants, and eat dinner on a bench on the Common!
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Maybe if I didn’t hear yelling and screaming out on the sidewalk because you mother fuckers can’t shut up while I’m trying to sleep in this city. Bro I should just move out to the country, and you guys stomp way too hard on the sidewalk. Like what the fuck are you stomping out there? Bugs? It’s cold out there’s no reason for you to be walking that loud. And don’t get me started on the people who use their stupid shitty small Bluetooth speakers to crank up their god-awful music. Or their friends that shout at each other from across the street, like use a cell phone you don’t got to yell like a goddamn animal. Fuck City Life man I can’t wait to move out of here
With all these cars going around, there won’t be much of an earth left to walk around on. Urban life is more sustainable.
I will walk 50 miles to work every day before I live in a tiny box with clog-dancers on my ceiling and drunks shouting all night outside.
Okay you go ahead and try and sleep in a loud City and tell me how you like it? And I’ve already complained to the city about it but they just blow me off. People always say about how it’s so great to live in the city but I fucking hate it.
Stop throwing a tantrum and you’ll have an easier time. I live in the world’s 7th largest megapolis, by the way.
So that’s it then huh? Just stop throwing a tantrum? That’s how you’re going to end the argument now that vehicles are out of the question it’s just stop your tantrum? You’re so shallow
I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees this sort of thing. Yeah, cars are loud but people in cities are loud, too. And rude. And there’s so many of them.
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