Yeah, nazism was not tolerated under socialism. After 1991 fascism exploded in all postsocialist countries, in Ukraine it was also specifically aided by the USA and Canada where a lot of banderites went after war and they were able to go back and participate in the looting of Ukraine.
Not everything evil is nazism, theres plenty other brands of fascism. Not all nationalism is fascist (see IRA, PKK et all).
After 1991 fascism exploded in all postsocialist countries
Huh, just as if 60 years of soviet communism was not enough to convince people it’s a better option. Interesting. I do hope you do include Russia in that where it’s fascist movements, gangsters and capitalist cronies took over power and rule until now?
there’s a well documented history of the ruling class fostering fascist causes to take down socialist efforts and the rise of neo-nazism in post socialist countries – including ukraine – is another chapter of it.
Yes, but how do they achieve that in a blink of an eye since the communism fals? Most of Ukraine has been under Soviet control since 30’s. That’s 70 years, easily 3 generations of people who were raised in it. Then magic, western capitalists elites drop ads for fascism onto people and they turn en mass? Maybe there were some other reasons for that than just the West’s doing? Or was it also capitalist ruling class conducting an antisemitic purge in Poland in 1968?
none of it was created in a blink of an eye. ukranian separatism, for example, has existed for centuries and was fostered by the monarchies of western europe as a foil against the russian monarchy.
the ruling classes don’t create fascist movements, they just help spur them along where they would have died out naturally otherwise and as a means to achieve their goals.
ukranian separatism, for example, has existed for centuries and was fostered by the monarchies of western europe as a foil against the russian monarchy.
So monarchical claims are your only perspective of peoples living between Eastern and Western empires? Great, great, wonder why people choose evil ideologies giving them at least the impression of being in charge, over your benevolent subjugation of them to any absolutist power in a 1000km radius.
There was a nationalist/fascist movement there strong enough to conduct a genocide in the 40s, so maybe not everything you dont like is a western plot?
It wasn’t very strong really, around 200-250 thousands Ukrainians fought for nazis in total, even after Germany occupied basically entire UkSSR as compared to 7 million in Red Army plus few million partisans and their supporters. Even in 1991 iirc 73% of UkSSR were against dissolution of Soviet Union and independence of Ukraine. If anything, they needed over 30 years of work and 4 prowestern coups to get Ukraine where it is today, 1991 illegal dissolution of USSR, 2004 “Orange Revolution”, 2014 Maidan and 2019 Zelensky govt being elected as peace option and instead escalating situation.
No idea where you get the numbers from, but if ~250k people is not a strong movement after 200 years of forced Polonisation and Russicization I dont know what is.
Even in 1991 iirc 73% of UkSSR were against dissolution of Soviet Union and independence of Ukraine.
Well, most of the ones who might have remembered anything but servitude were starved to death so that helps I guess. But who would even publish data like these in a collapsing state?
1991 illegal dissolution of USSR,
lol
and instead escalating situation.
Yeah, when he first used illegaly operating military personel in to size Crimea and the to be “peoples republics” and than drove Russian tanks into Ukraine that was a step to far, totally agree.
Your coherent argument was: “lol”, and your bad faith debate pervertness defending nazi state in this entire thread calls for cleaning rather than pointless discussion. Begone, fash.
How elese you expect me discuss your claim that collapse of an empire spanning half of Asia and Europe was a western coup?
And I’m literally saying there has for a long time been a strong fascist/fascist movement in Ukraine, “the west” did not have to plant it. But you have such disregard for all people outside of your sect that you can not comprehend anyone else being self steering people making their own choices, however good or bad.
BTW how could you even coup an actually communist country, where all the power is in the hands of millions of workers? If you believe it fell because of a coup you either admit that soviet union was a dictatorship with a power centralised so much it would be possible or that it was nowhere close of workers control.
Class consciousness of the butchers of Wołyń, or your just attempting to randomly signal your supposed superiority derived from having watched some Marxist tiktoks?
I watched a travel documentary made in the 90s and, through it, it was already apparent the west was fomenting fascism in Ukraine.
First Bandera statue was erected in Lviv in 1992
Lol that’s probably when this documentary tool place.
Maybe cuz it was soviet union untill about then?
Yeah, nazism was not tolerated under socialism. After 1991 fascism exploded in all postsocialist countries, in Ukraine it was also specifically aided by the USA and Canada where a lot of banderites went after war and they were able to go back and participate in the looting of Ukraine.
Not everything evil is nazism, theres plenty other brands of fascism. Not all nationalism is fascist (see IRA, PKK et all).
Huh, just as if 60 years of soviet communism was not enough to convince people it’s a better option. Interesting. I do hope you do include Russia in that where it’s fascist movements, gangsters and capitalist cronies took over power and rule until now?
there’s a well documented history of the ruling class fostering fascist causes to take down socialist efforts and the rise of neo-nazism in post socialist countries – including ukraine – is another chapter of it.
Yes, but how do they achieve that in a blink of an eye since the communism fals? Most of Ukraine has been under Soviet control since 30’s. That’s 70 years, easily 3 generations of people who were raised in it. Then magic, western capitalists elites drop ads for fascism onto people and they turn en mass? Maybe there were some other reasons for that than just the West’s doing? Or was it also capitalist ruling class conducting an antisemitic purge in Poland in 1968?
none of it was created in a blink of an eye. ukranian separatism, for example, has existed for centuries and was fostered by the monarchies of western europe as a foil against the russian monarchy.
the ruling classes don’t create fascist movements, they just help spur them along where they would have died out naturally otherwise and as a means to achieve their goals.
So monarchical claims are your only perspective of peoples living between Eastern and Western empires? Great, great, wonder why people choose evil ideologies giving them at least the impression of being in charge, over your benevolent subjugation of them to any absolutist power in a 1000km radius.
Check out Eric Hobsbawms documentary on the Vienna Bratislava train line, he also predicted the rise of ultra nationalism in Europe in the 1990s.
There was a nationalist/fascist movement there strong enough to conduct a genocide in the 40s, so maybe not everything you dont like is a western plot?
It wasn’t very strong really, around 200-250 thousands Ukrainians fought for nazis in total, even after Germany occupied basically entire UkSSR as compared to 7 million in Red Army plus few million partisans and their supporters. Even in 1991 iirc 73% of UkSSR were against dissolution of Soviet Union and independence of Ukraine. If anything, they needed over 30 years of work and 4 prowestern coups to get Ukraine where it is today, 1991 illegal dissolution of USSR, 2004 “Orange Revolution”, 2014 Maidan and 2019 Zelensky govt being elected as peace option and instead escalating situation.
No idea where you get the numbers from, but if ~250k people is not a strong movement after 200 years of forced Polonisation and Russicization I dont know what is.
Well, most of the ones who might have remembered anything but servitude were starved to death so that helps I guess. But who would even publish data like these in a collapsing state?
lol
Yeah, when he first used illegaly operating military personel in to size Crimea and the to be “peoples republics” and than drove Russian tanks into Ukraine that was a step to far, totally agree.
Removed by mod
Your coherent argument was: “lol”, and your bad faith debate pervertness defending nazi state in this entire thread calls for cleaning rather than pointless discussion. Begone, fash.
How elese you expect me discuss your claim that collapse of an empire spanning half of Asia and Europe was a western coup?
And I’m literally saying there has for a long time been a strong fascist/fascist movement in Ukraine, “the west” did not have to plant it. But you have such disregard for all people outside of your sect that you can not comprehend anyone else being self steering people making their own choices, however good or bad.
BTW how could you even coup an actually communist country, where all the power is in the hands of millions of workers? If you believe it fell because of a coup you either admit that soviet union was a dictatorship with a power centralised so much it would be possible or that it was nowhere close of workers control.
Ever heard of Gladio?
Yes. Could you people at least pretend not to think you are better than every one else?
it’s called a plot or conspiracy when people lack an understanding of the reality behind it.
You got a better term?
class consciousness
Class consciousness of the butchers of Wołyń, or your just attempting to randomly signal your supposed superiority derived from having watched some Marxist tiktoks?