• Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    That’s the same logic as saying Capitalism is voluntary because workers agree to work for their wages. Such analysis sees the subservience in a vacuum devoid of external pressures or developmental practices.

    • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
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      2 months ago

      in this case the external pressure is a rogue state doing a cheeky land grab on its neighbor

      i’m not sure why that’s nato’s fault, although i’m very excited that you’re about to tell me

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        NATO was formed to be anti-USSR, after the collapse of which the Russian Federation tried to join NATO, and was denied. The RF then complained about NATO expansion, which had not ceased.

        Regardless of whether or not you believe Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is justified or villianous, it was provoked by NATO expansion, as admitted by NATO leaders themselves.

        NATO didn’t start after 2022, many of its leaders were Nazi officers and it has always been a way to exert Western supremacy.

        • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
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          2 months ago

          NATO was formed to be anti-USSR, after the collapse of which the Russian Federation tried to join NATO, and was denied.

          in the same way the us wouldn’t be allowed to join csto

          The RF then complained about NATO expansion, which had not ceased.

          i don’t see how it’s nato’s fault that people are so sick of russia’s shit that they’re signing up to the defensive alliance against them in their droves

          it was provoked by NATO expansion

          nato expansion that existed because of russian land grabs

          nato isn’t the warsaw pact. they aren’t sending in tanks to force people to be a part of their alliance.

          this is just you doing the thing you accused me of doing by refusing to consider externalities

          NATO didn’t start after 2022

          russia didn’t start misbehavin’ after 2022 either

          many of its leaders were Nazi officers

          east germany was part of the warsaw pact, and had plenty of ex-nazis in its ranks

          the reason you can’t draw a line from that to today is because the ussr folded like a cheap suit 30 years ago

          it has always been a way to exert Western supremacy

          you’re just kind of saying things now

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            in the same way the us wouldn’t be allowed to join csto

            Have NATO countries complained of CSTO expansion? Has the US been denied entry into CSTO? Has the CSTO expanded against the will of NATO?

            i don’t see how it’s nato’s fault that people are so sick of russia’s shit that they’re signing up to the defensive alliance against them in their droves

            It’s NATO’s fault for consisting of the absolutely most grotesque reaches of Imperialist countries, and expanding against the wishes of non-NATO countries.

            nato expansion that existed because of russian land grabs

            Bzzzt wrong. NATO has been expanding long before.

            this is just you doing the thing you accused me of doing by refusing to consider externalities

            Quite the contrary, you’re deliberately erasing historical context.

            russia didn’t start misbehavin’ after 2022 either

            When and why did Russia start “misbehavin?”

            east germany was part of the warsaw pact, and had plenty of ex-nazis in its ranks

            Whataboutism, lmao. East-Germany purged Nazis, that’s one of the reasons the west complains that the GDR was authoritarian. NATO was led by Nazis.

            Anyone that considers themselves a good person cannot be *pro-*NATO. You can disagree with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine without being pro-NATO.

            • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
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              2 months ago

              Has the US been denied entry into CSTO? Has the CSTO expanded against the will of NATO?

              i don’t think nato cares about csto

              It’s NATO’s fault for consisting of the absolutely most grotesque reaches of Imperialist countries

              russia is literally doing an imperialism right now, but nato is the one with grotesque reaches, okay

              Bzzzt wrong. NATO has been expanding long before.

              lmao because nato predates russia

              and russia started getting into iffy wars basically at its inception

              When and why did Russia start “misbehavin?”

              probably because they’re an imperialist power? i don’t know

              East-Germany purged Nazis

              okay

              • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                2 months ago

                i don’t think nato cares about csto

                So then why bring it up?

                russia is literally doing an imperialism right now, but nato is the one with grotesque reaches, okay

                Invasion and Imperialism are not the same thing. Regardless of the morality or immorality of invasion, NATO retains its status as Imperialist via surplus extraction and exploitation of the Global South.

                lmao because nato predates russia

                and russia started getting into iffy wars basically at its inception

                This kinda verges on anti-Russian racism, there’s no analysis of why you believe this.

                probably because they’re an imperialist power? i don’t know

                You indeed do not know.

                okay

                The GDR indeed purged Nazis, as they were attacked by western Germany, which largely retained its Nazis.

                • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
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                  2 months ago

                  So then why bring it up?

                  because it’s the closest equivalent to nato? the us also wouldn’t be allowed to join brics, if that helps de-confuse you.

                  Invasion and Imperialism are not the same thing.

                  please provide a definition for imperialism that doesn’t include what russia’s doing in ukraine now

                  This kinda verges on anti-Russian racism, there’s no analysis of why you believe this.

                  says the one who’s just been continuously stating without expounding that nato is a collection of spooky imperialist powers

                  You indeed do not know.

                  The GDR indeed purged Nazis, as they were attacked by western Germany, which largely retained its Nazis.

                  or don’t respond to what i posted that’s cool too i guess

                  i think it’s pretty clear you don’t have much of an argument here, given that this started as “nato is a protection racket” and across 6 replies you’ve provided absolutely nothing to support that statement past whinging

                  peace

                  • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                    2 months ago

                    because it’s the russian equivalent to nato? the us also wouldn’t be allowed to join brics, if that helps de-confuse you.

                    It’s the Russian equivalent, you say, except the power dynamic is entirely different and CSTO isn’t expanding. Interesting.

                    please provide a definition for imperialism that doesn’t include what russia’s doing in ukraine now

                    Export of Industrial and Financial Capital to exploited Countries to super-exploit for super-profits, like an international Capitalistic relation. You know, the standard definition Leftists follow.

                    says the one who’s just been continuously stating without expounding that nato is a collection of spooky imperialist powers

                    I have explained how and why, your refusal to read is no longer my problem.

                    i think it’s pretty clear you don’t have much of an argument here, given that this started as “nato is a protection racket” and across 6 replies you’ve provided absolutely nothing to support that statement past whinging

                    Quite the contrary, your selective reading and blinders mean you can’t be reached with words.

          • Alsephina@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            east germany was part of the warsaw pact, and had plenty of ex-nazis in its ranks

            Lmfao the fourth reich west germany literally had more nazis leading it in its government than during the third reich. The socialist states did the opposite and purged nazis — obviously, since fascism is actually a threat to socialist states whereas it’s more of an asset to capitalists with them able to scapegoat marginalized people for capitalism’s faults the more prevalent it is.

            Fully 77 percent of senior ministry officials in 1957 were former members of Adolf Hitler’s Nazi party, a higher proportion even than during the 1933-45 Third Reich, the study found.

            From 1949 to 1973, 90 of the 170 leading lawyers and judges in the then-West German Justice Ministry had been members of the Nazi Party.

            Of those 90 officials, 34 had been members of the Sturmabteilung (SA), Nazi Party paramilitaries who aided Hitler’s rise and took part in Kristallnacht, a night of violence that is believed to have left 91 Jewish people dead.