• Owl@mander.xyz
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    23 days ago

    This is far too interesting to let you starve us like this ! Please continue your writing !

    • FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world
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      22 days ago

      Since you asked nicely :)

      A few more where “churchy” words are invented rather than the bog standard everyday term that was used…

      Repent - this just straight up means “change your mind” (perhaps “change your heart / ways”). It doesn’t connote anything to do with church confession or being on your knees or talking to a church leader. It sort of means “sort yourself out”. I find it slightly more endearing (and less preachy) to imagine first century Jewish men walking around Judea saying “change your ways! The rule of God is about to happen!”. That almost sounds exciting. Artificially translating it as a word that we nearly never use outside of a church context makes “repent!” sounds far more judgemental and confrontational than it actually is.

      Apostle - this means being “sent out” and there are far more suitable everyday words that mean exactly what a first century hearer would have heard. “Emissary” is one. But also the sense of “ambassador”. So Jesus appoints 12 ambassadors to go out and spread the message. Makes sense. It ties far more nicely with the fact that Jesus conceived of a “government of God” that was heavenly rather than earthly. So since we already have a well working concept of an ambassador for that, there’s no need to keep the Greek and invent a church word like “apostle”. (I also think “ambassador” trends to spell out the special role that these original people had being sent directly by Jesus, whereas there are all sorts of Christian sects today using the title “apostle” in a somewhat casual way that I think, in part, is because no-one knows what an “apostle” is - it’s a church word - and that means the meaning can be bent at will)

      Deacon - this just straight up means “helper”. In Acts 6 the “ambassadors” find that haven’t enough time to distribute food, so 7 helpers (deaconos) are recruited. Less high faluting, and far more down to earth. Every assembly of believers has a helper or two. Makes sense.

      Presbyter - this is a church leader in some branches of church. It means “elder”. Through the new testament, the believer communities have multiple “elders” the same way any village would have its own gathering of elders. It was a mundane everyday social role that connoted maturity and wisdom. Timothy, a young leader appointed by Paul, gets told not to worry that he’s young for this reason. When Paul finally goes up to Jerusalem to meet Peter and the other original believers after many years he’s not even interested in “job titles”. He just seeks out “those reputed to be pillars of the community” (Galatians 2:9). Leadership in the new testament was far more relational and communal that the profession it turned into. Keeping the original mundane descriptive terms (which were not job titles) would help with this.

      Pastor - means shepherd. I’ll let this one pass because “Pastor Barney” sounds infinitely less weird than having “Shepherd Jim” and “Shepherd Tom”. Though I believe these are some corners of Christianity where this is done. Even so, no-one has the title “pastor” in the new testament. And Jesus positively discourages the disciples from using titles in multiple places.

      Bishop - again this is from a Greek word that’s ended creating its own word instead of being translated. It originates from the Greek word “overseer”. Or, perhaps even more mundanely, “manager”. In the new testament it’s somewhat interchangeable with “elder”.

      Priest - this is a complicated one. In the old testament, the people doing the sacrifices at the temple were kohen. We translate that now as “priest” in English but - badly. As we saw above in the new testament the new Christian communities had elders (or managers) with a handful of helpers. The word for elder - the Greek presbyteros - is what eventually morphed into the English “priest”. But this simply meant an elder in a community and had nothing to do with offering sacrifices in a temple. So why in English translations is it the old testament temple workers who are called “priests” whereas the new testament leaders are now called “elders”? Well. In the first century, having communities of believers looked after by elders had a distinctly communal feel and was a far cry from the old Jewish temple system, lead by “sacred men” who did the sacrifices. However, Christian thought slowly evolved to understand that even though Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross had done away with the need for the Jewish temple system, the “elders” in church were sort of invoking Jesus’ sacrifice when they organised the communion meal (eucharist). So eventually what started as a mundane word for village elder came to absorb the idea of being a holy man making sacrifices, a “priest” by our modern understanding of the word. So then both new testament leaders and Jewish temple leaders got called “priests” even though the words used for their respective roles in the bible are totally different. But this suited the then Catholic church just fine, as it had evolved to see a similarity of sorts between the old temple priests and the new church priests. Then the reformation happened (16th century). And a bunch of Bible scholars said “wait a minute… these aren’t the same thing at all” and on their way out of the Catholic church as Protestants they decided the new testament leaders are very much not making sacrifices and if the old testament is going to have “priests” then the new testament translation should revert to “elder” to keep things nice and clear. And that’s what we’ve got now in most English translations like the NASB, NIV and so on. Meanwhile, Catholic translations of the Bible tend to keep both the old testament and new testament leaders both called “priests”.

      This is simplified and there’s more to it but you get the idea.

      End of part 2

      • Owl@mander.xyz
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        22 days ago

        Thank you very much ! Please, if you ever write a book/ start a Youtube channel or do something like that shoot me a message