Now that we have final numbers. It appears that Harris had all the white & black support she needed for an EC victory. But Trump outright flipping Latino men and making huge gains with Latino women seems to have made all the difference.
What do you think?
First image is 2024, second is 2020.
Your narrative is that Latinos “shifted right” but I think this is a false framing- it was the Biden/Harris administration that shifted hard right on its proposed immigration policies and it left many Latino voters feeling politically abandoned.
Look at the Democrats’ 2024 immigration bill- it is deportations, immigration quotas, and building the wall - while including nothing “left of center” such as amnesty. It is literally a Trump 2016 wishlist.
So the solution to not liking the democrat shift right is to join in with the side off the scale right? I’m not following the logic there…
A lot of Latinos are fairly conservative people, a lot of them are strongly Catholic with all of the baggage that comes with it, etc.
Basically the only major policy reason they ever leaned towards the democrats is immigration, so with the Dems going further right on immigration it makes a lot of sense for some of them to be jumping ship
Populist messaging is popular because it acknowledges that people are suffering and offers easy “solutions” to it.
Most folks don’t actually want to hear the details, they’re both busy and don’t fucking understand it without the benefits of a educational system that has been systemically destroyed for decades.
Trump said he’ll fix the economy and blamed Biden, Harris wanted to pretend that the lines went up so things were good because she was effectively burdened as an incumbent candidate.
Harris decentivized her base of support by chasing Lucy’s football of Republicans that aren’t fucking fascists, going after the Cheney votes of all fucking things, Trump siphoned votes from people that don’t quite know how to fix the problem but know there is a problem.
You can point to Harris’s specific policies all you want, the people you need to get to the polls and vote for you don’t know about them because they’re boring.
I’m not proposing a “solution” here, but the logic is obvious: as the Democratic Party moves to the right, their traditional base becomes more alienated and less incentivized to vote.
I didn’t mean that you where, but if the Latino population shifted their votes more R this year it seems an odd explanation that they where offended by the democrats shifting right on policies. If that was the case then why would they go in with people who are even more to the right?
I think this whole question needs another field to it for the turnout difference. It may be (not to keep picking on Latinos but) they made up 5% in 2020 and 6% in 2024, but is that of all eligible voters, or of those that actually showed up? If 1/2 showed up last time and 1/3 did this time, but the ones who showed up where the more conservative portion then it would look like they ‘shifted’ right, but it wouldn’t be real.
Why go with republican-light if the real thing exists? Catering to the center and right wing as Democrats is off-putting to basically everyone except libs
wow, you answer one question about abortion by saying immigrants are rapists and suddenly people feel abandoned. tsk tsk.
I think you’re trying to force a narrative on to this that doesn’t exist. You’re assuming that many of these Latino voters are against harder immigration policy. Polls are telling us the opposite. Poles are telling us that a lot of these Latinos that voted for Trump want this. They didn’t think Biden was too strong on immigration they thought he was too weak.
This literally makes no sense. That immigration bill was bipartisan. And if Latinos felt Dems shifted to far right (which is laughable if you actually look at the policies), why would they vote even further right? THAT MAKES NO SENSE!
Whole thread full of people blaming an entire race and sex whether that’s Latinos, Latino men, Whites, or White men. You ask a stupid question and you get stupid answers.
Kamala Harris lost cause she’s female. And didn’t
liepromise (that much) to voters. And had the richest 0.5% of US voters against her. This is cause the oldest wannabe-democracy of the world lost his state long ago.White Dude for Harris here. I am sad face
Democrats failed to solve people’s issues. That’s just it.
But Americans are in for a hard awakening if they think that in general Latin American population is progressive or left leaning. And that democrats have their guaranteed vote.
Each person is different, of course. And the average doesn’t change any person individual values.
But on average Latin American countries tend to have overwhelming conservative cultures when compared with USA/Europe.
This doesn’t negate any Latin American person who is progressive, of course. Just talking about averages and the reality that was shown by the polls.
Many legal immigrants get pissed if you conflate them with illegal immigrants. They try very hard distance themselves from those people. Couple that with pervasive machismo and Catholic ignorance and this is what you get.
Since Trump’s number one message was about immigration, it makes me wonder how Latinos took that message. A bystanding white person might think that US Latinos should be appalled at the way Trump painted Mexican immigrants as criminals.
But then again, maybe Mexican immigrants who’ve been in the US a while look down on those recently arriving, or don’t want more of them to compete with. After all if you are a Mexican immigrant, you probably compete with other Mexican immigrants for work on some level.
So there again we have the failure of identity politics. It’s about simple “me” economics, not “we” identity.
I live in the Rio Grande Valley. The prevailing sentiment I’ve heard from people regarding trump-supporting Latino relatives was that they seem to be of the opinion that trump is only going to go after the undocumented. There’s also a fuckton of anger at the word “Latinx.”
Mind you, this is anecdote based on my personal observations living in the area, and I make no claims beyond that.
Couple this with the Democratic Party moving to the right on immigration. Now the people who once had common cause with Democrats and would begrudgingly vote for them in spite of their misgivings regarding abortion and trans people had no reason to stick with the party and either voted trump or stayed home.
It also doesn’t help that we lost our NPR affiliate a few years back. The valley is really spread out and a lot of people get their news from terrestrial radio on their work commute. Now the only non-music programming is trumpist grievance screaming.
As a Latin American, the Latinx word just invokes unyielding rage into us, and marks everyone who uses it as a forever enemy
You have no say in our identity, even less with made up champagne collectivist class guilt shit
Like so. I didn’t even say I used the word, just that it was hated.
Oh no doubt in my mind it’s the same as the stockholm syndrome afflicted gay men who were all over social media supporting Trump. It doesn’t matter what the Republican party does or says, men in the US want to support it and delude themselves that they aren’t it’s targets.
Kamala lost because the Dems didn’t show up. Again. Look at the number of votes for 2020 vs 2024. All those “undecided” and “obstainers” that didn’t just stay home. They didn’t bother doing a mail in.
Second highest voter turnout in the US. A difference of only 2,624,285 as per University of Florida estimates so far (the number is likely to go down).
This excuse is getting old.
One, you are assuming people who did not vote would vote dems.
Two, you are pushing blame to the voters who did not show up (and based on the lack of choice it is wild so many showed up)
Three, by pushing that blame on to voters you are almost asking for this to happen again. (By letting the dems keep being crap, pissing off voters, and getting people angry at their neighbours helps the republicans)
First, an explanation isn’t an excuse. It’s a reason. It doesn’t make it okay, it doesn’t place or shift blame, it just correctly points something out.
In this case, Trump broadly received the same number of votes as he did 4 years ago, while the Democrats got millions fewer.
There’s no assumption there, it’s just an observation.
It’s not pushing or assigning blame. Maybe they didn’t vote because they were lazy. Maybe they didn’t vote because they didn’t like Harris. Maybe they didn’t vote because they didn’t like the process by which she became the nominee. Maybe they didn’t vote because they’ve lost faith in the entire system.
Regardless of reason, and regardless of how any observer decides to interpret it or assign blame, the facts speak for themselves.
Your explanation ignores the root cause of the issue. People stayed home because the Democrats and Kamala failed to motivate them to go.
Yes, we are comparing the numbers to the highest voter turn out (which was last election). Biden was able to move 6-7 million more people to vote than Kamala, whereas Trump got about the same as he got in 2020.
Voters have to take some responsibility here. Trump’s base are all being con’d because they are ignorant on how most of the world works beyond their own backyard. Its possible that this is partly true for the 6-7 million people who didn’t vote this election cycle.
The issue isn’t so much that they didn’t vote for Kamala, but rather they did not have the ability to recognize Trump as the con that he is. Me being of average intelligence feels like this should have been easy to decipher.
Ever cosider that there’s a reason why the latinos moved to the right?
That’s why I’m asking?
These are national statistics. They bear no direct relation to the outcome.
They do, because no state exists in a vacuum.
43 states and one district didn’t matter this time.
Only seven states mattered.They all affect each other even when the electoral count make them seemingly unimportant.
I don’t see how.
Because whatever happens on the national level affects what happens on the state level.
I think you have it backwards. The national statistics are a result of what happens on the state level in aggregate.
As a data analyst, the way the two graphs are setup terribly. There’s really not enough information to come up with any conclusions from the charts.
Also, first, there’s not enough information from the graphs to determine the situation since it’s only by percentages and not population. Second, our system is based on the winners of each state and used by the electoral votes. So overall popular vote isn’t going to determine who got elected, even if the chart showed all blue for all demographics.
The Dems would have won if they ran a campaign relevant to the struggling and apprehensive. They didn’t. They lost.
Every other Lemmy comment section told me that it was Anti-Genocide college students who cost Kamala the election /s
you’re getting downvoted as though you are lying. i saw people equivocating the uncommitted movement with pro-Trump on here since February. and now people are turning around and saying “no we didn’t do that that didn’t happen.”
like maybe it wasn’t you but it happened. be fking for real.
Yeah, as much as people on this site love to love to shit on conservatives for being MAGA-brained, most of the Democratic rank-and-file acolytes mirror the same behavior. History will absolve my, and many others’ comments but it’ll be too late to fix problems that could have been avoided. Ultimately, people in general want to be in their echo chambers and have their opinions supported
More than one thing can be true; one things can be a subset of another.
It’s never any 1 constituency to blame.
But maybe a campaign telling independents and centrists that liberals are doing genocide while not also running on saying, “Republicans will genocide more, however,” was a really bad idea.
I’m not sure you guys bear the moral responsibility for Kamala losing, but I do think there is an argument to make for bearing moral responsibility to helping ensure more death happened.
As this chart makes pretty clear, white men are to blame.
while not also running on saying, “Republicans will genocide more, however,”
They did.
These constituents are voters who helped deliver Biden the presidency in 2020, and who now feel deeply hurt and betrayed by the President’s decisions to continue funding war crimes and the mass killing of Palestinians. Arab American, Muslim American, and young voters, as well as people of conscience in Michigan and nationwide, are critical to the strength of the base. We cannot afford to have this base permanently disillusioned or alienated in November. The Uncommitted Movement Emphasis mine.
Pro-Palestine kids on campuses were incredibly fearful of a Trump reelection and ran their campaigns to influence the Democratic at least partially out of that fear.
Pro-Palestine knew the Dems were far more likely to win if they promised to fund domestic concerns rather than what has been widely accepted to be a genocide. Feel free to criticize the ratio of anti-Dem:anti-Trump messaging all you like, but it’s afactual to say anti-Trump didn’t happen.
Fair enough. I’ll admit that my comment was just a snide remark to those in a community that will jump at the first opportunity to deflect blame onto anyone but refuse to entertain a second of introspection.
A functional, coherent working class policy would’ve ticked some of those numbers in the campaign’s favor across the board without even having to divide by race or gender.
Don’t forget all the people who voted for Biden in 2020 and didn’t fucking vote in 2024
15 million of them. That is a staggering number.
15 million of them. That is a staggering number.
It’s also not an accurate number. The official count for Biden in 2020 was about 81.3 million (found many places online, but the official one is a good choice) and the unofficial count for Harris by AP so far is about 74.3 million. That’s about 7 million, which is less than half of what you claimed.
People have got to stop just posting straight up false information. If you don’t know, don’t post.
It would be more appropriate to say outdated. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2024/11/13/20-million-votes-election-harris-trump-fact-check/76136743007/ As of November 6th 16 million less votes than the year before had been counted.
No, if you said it a week ago it would be outdated. The fact that you’re still saying it is what makes it false. As you point it out new information is available. You’re just using old information still.
By comparison if I wrote a book in the 1600s about the medical necessity of leaching, that would be outdated today. If I wrote a book about the medical necessity of leaching in 2024 that would just be false.
But they still use leeches! Because your hypothetical example is imperfect I’m afraid I’ll have to dismiss everything you said and go with the old, inaccurate numbers. What a shame.
I didn’t write a book or claim to be an authority on the subject. I stated what I remember on a subject I had read an article about 2 weeks ago.
We both know the reasonable way to interpret your post, and the way nearly everybody would interpret it, is that that’s the current or final count. It’s also outdated to say 74 million fewer people voted for Harris, but at one point, that was in fact the count. But it’s more than outdated - it’s misleading to the point of being factually inaccurate to any observer.
I can’t believe instead of being like “oh shit, I made a mistake, my bad, I better think for a second about this in the future” you’re going to try to justify it. Whatever, that’s social media at this point I guess. Surely I’m not the problem, says everybody feeding misinformation in a giant circle. I thought Lemmy might be better, but it’s just not. Thank you for convincing me to finally give all social media up.
I didn’t know it was outdated at the time. I don’t constantly check and double things I read in passing to see if it has been updated. I am not a professional in the field.
Man you’re arguing about something so insignificant.
White people are so obsessed with blaming an optgroup like what about all the white guys that voted for him
… but he’ll make my racist life better, he told me! /s
What about all the white women who voted for Trump? Benefitting from structural racism is a helluva drug
