To my mind, Ban has always meant permanent.
“You’re banned from this place! You’ll never be allowed in again!”
While I’ve always thought of Suspend as being temporary.
“You’re being suspended from school for 1 week, over fighting.”
Ban:
- to prohibit especially by legal means
- bar entry
- to debar temporarily especially from a privilege, office, or function
- a: to cause to stop temporarily
b: to set aside or make temporarily inoperative - to defer to a later time on specified conditions
- to hold in an undetermined or undecided state awaiting further information
When I hear someone mention they were banned my reaction is: “Holy shit! WTF did you do to earn that!” Then I find out it was only for a day or three: “Oh… That’s not a Ban! That’s minor. Go touch grass. You’ll be fine.”
I’ve been banned from subreddits and communities a few times. At least once I never even noticed because it was so short.
How is it a Ban if I didn’t even notice?
Why did Ban in online forums and games, come to mean temporary?
Is it simply an example of the intensification of language? To make something mundane, seem more severe than it is?
Does it bother anyone else? Or am I alone here?
But why would you assume it’s not? Generally if something is temporary, it’s explicitly defined that way.
Can you name another time limited condition or situation which doesn’t include that aspect in it’s definition?
Why would you assume anything at all? It also isn’t explicitly defined as permanent either.
It isn’t explicitly defined as temporary because it doesn’t have to be temporary. It isn’t explicitly defined as permanent because it doesn’t have to be permanent. The word could be used in either situation.
Traditionally terms for temporary things include that aspect in their definition, like the definitions of Suspend I gave.
By tradition of definition, permanent is implied unless otherwise defined.
Can you give an example of a word for a temporary condition or situation, that isn’t explicitly defined as such?
Neither is implied unless otherwise defined. I’m saying that it isn’t necessarily temporary either. It’s not explicitly defined as temporary because it doesn’t have to be temporary.
‘Ban’ isn’t just a word for a temporary condition. Just as it isn’t just a word for a permanent condition.
Can you give an example of a word that could be temporary or could be permanent, and the definition explicitly points both out?
That’s not my claim. It’s also a dodge to my question.
But it got me thinking.
Provisional: for the present time but likely to change
No specified ending date or condition, but also temporary. That may be the closest to what you’re looking for.
Your question is built on a faulty assumption, so I simply answered with another question that would more accurately reflect what we’re discussing.
You gave me a word which only means temporary, which is very much not what I am looking for. Do you understand what the difference is?
You’re hung up on the assumption you’ve made that anything that isn’t explicitly defined as temporary must be permanent, failing to consider that a word could simply mean neither. This assumption is on you, no one else has made this assumption and a dozen people have all explained to you why that’s not so. No one else is having trouble with the word but you!
You made this thread to ask a question, got answered, and proceeded to reject every single answer given to you. Why make the thread at all if you’ve already made up your mind that the rest of the world is wrong?
The thing is, nothing is permanent in an absolute sense. (Maybe logic, but that’s about it)
So in a world where everything changes, what does permanent mean? It can only mean reasonably mean, “without predetermined end.” Not that it won’t end, because everything does eventually.
So Temporary must be that which does have predetermined end time.
Since Provisional does not have a predetermined end, but does include an explicit indication of eventually ending, it is both permanent and temporary.
Not really. A couple of people tried to answer it. One did quite well. You and yours are all simply saying I’m wrong, and my question is invalid; Simply because for your entire life I imagine, Ban has always been used this way. But some 20 or 30 years ago, I can promise you (so can a few others here) it wasn’t that way.
Ban isn’t a term for temporary things. It can be used for both. At which point a clarification needs to be provided “temporary” or “permanent” ban.
Suspension isn’t the opposite of ban. Suspension is temporary.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. People and places keep using the term Ban when it’s temporary, and Suspension the closer fit.
Almost like you could use two different ways to describe the same situation. Ultimately it doesn’t matter that something is “more precise” - people will use what a lot of people use. Language is a tool for communication. Ban makes it immediately known what you are talking about - because it is widely used. Suspension - people need to have a short “think”. It also uses more syllables. As long as both people immediately know what you mean, you can use any word you want. That’s why pedants / language purists are entirely pointless. Language is fluid and it changes. A lot of people using something suddenly means a word gets new meanings. That’s why when you say “disinterested” meaning “impartial”, someone will tell you off for being “uninterested” or bored. Because dis- has been used to have the same meaning as a more popular word, un-.
I’m claiming the reverse. In fact I specifically said so in my original post.
A Suspension immediately means temporary. A Ban may or may not. You need to look further to find out.
You can claim / believe whatever you want. The reality is “suspension” is a longer word which isn’t immediately obvious and “ban” is short, simple, popular. As I said - language is fluid and isn’t perfectly crafted to share info with 100% of it contained in as little words as possible. Suspension also means a bunch of other stuff - car suspension, a mixture, something can be suspended in the air. A ban is a ban, short, one syllable, everyone knows you aren’t talking about something else.