I’m talking about Socialism as it actually exists, not some ideal version that only exists in the minds of dreamers. You really need to read some more theory, none of what you say makes any sense, like claiming Capitalism isn’t a “thing.” Economic systems are real, material relations of production.
I’m not arguing with you! I agree that socialism exists! It does not, however, exist in a vacuum completely free of the influence of capitalism. Every implementation of socialism on the planet has had to work with, or work around, the human propensity towards selfishness to continue existing. The ones that worked against capitalism failed, or were subverted into adopting capitalism in some form. Maybe Cuba got the closest. Even non-contacted tribes that exist outside the sphere of influence only continue to exist because the capitalists haven’t decided to try and extract value from them or their land.
Systems are not “mixtures” of one or the other. The existence of Private Property does not mean the system is Capitalist, nor does the existence of Public Property mean the system is Socialist. Capitalism and Socialism are used to describe which is dominant in the overall system, guiding its trajectory. Per Engels:
Question 17 : Will it be possible to abolish private property at one stroke?
Answer : No, no more than the existing productive forces can at one stroke be multiplied to the extent necessary for the creation of a communal society. Hence, the proletarian revolution, which in all probability is approaching, will be able gradually to transform existing society and abolish private property only when the necessary means of production have been created in sufficient quantity.
I’m talking about Socialism as it actually exists, not some ideal version that only exists in the minds of dreamers. You really need to read some more theory, none of what you say makes any sense, like claiming Capitalism isn’t a “thing.” Economic systems are real, material relations of production.
I’m not arguing with you! I agree that socialism exists! It does not, however, exist in a vacuum completely free of the influence of capitalism. Every implementation of socialism on the planet has had to work with, or work around, the human propensity towards selfishness to continue existing. The ones that worked against capitalism failed, or were subverted into adopting capitalism in some form. Maybe Cuba got the closest. Even non-contacted tribes that exist outside the sphere of influence only continue to exist because the capitalists haven’t decided to try and extract value from them or their land.
You’re under a confused idea that markets are Capitalism and that there are no Socialist countries left.
Sure! Show me a socialist county with no capitalism.
Systems are not “mixtures” of one or the other. The existence of Private Property does not mean the system is Capitalist, nor does the existence of Public Property mean the system is Socialist. Capitalism and Socialism are used to describe which is dominant in the overall system, guiding its trajectory. Per Engels: