Same for me. It was particularly vexing seeing a child pee into a plant outside an open shopping mall in the center of Shanghai. The restrooms are free, why not just take your kid inside??? The other thing that got me was people refusing to let you off the subway first before they make a mad dash looking for seats. The same happens on the elevators, but there aren’t seats so that one is even more confusing.
That’s a society which had lots of hierarchy and very little social or even territorial mobility until very recently. And those people’s ancestors were likely peasants who’d just live all their lives growing crops in very scary conditions.
I mean, I’ve heard these things about China and manners.
I’ve event heard maybe not so scary, but similar things about Russia and manners in the early XX century (since I live in Russia, I do believe they are correct).
I certainly agree with the possible cause. The part I can’t figure out is the lack of logic in the actions. Why try to push into the people attempting to get off the elevator when one could just wait a few seconds and get on in a more efficient manner? It all seems to increase the time it takes.
I’ve been told that many generations grew up in conditions where they had to fight and struggle for everything. If they allowed someone else to go first or get something before them, then they would lose out. Only oneself and family, everyone else is one their own. I suppose this overrides the logic I mentioned that is missing in the scenarios. I don’t think they’re trying to be rude, they’ve just been taught since birth that if you want or need something (like getting on an elevator), then you do it however you can that ensures success. In the elevator example, if you do wait for people to get off, others might not and could fill up the elevator before you get on, thus leaving you to wait for possibly several more minutes.
Well, analogy is not a sufficient method of argumentation by itself, but I suppose things I’ll write would be even more visible in Chinese villages 100 years ago.
In Russia the peasant commune as an institution was created artificially (so all those Russian narodniks glorifying it as something perfect and wonderful untouched by bureaucratic machine coming from the depth of ages were just stupid ; it’s one thing one can’t argue with Lenin about - they didn’t have a bloody idea of what that “people” they considered inherently virtuous was) somewhere around Peter the Great’s time. So it’s had enough time to mature.
That commune had enormous families living together, with the patriarch (the oldest man still able to work and do things) being basically a despot. It was literally not so rare for him to casually sleep with wives of his sons and nephews, for example (if not daughters and nieces). Nobody could refuse him.
Again, that whole family would live in one bloody place, together. No personal space or individuality at all.
In such an environment, first, you don’t act differently (either you’ll seem weak or you’ll cause envy, both are worse than any gained efficiency justifies), second, your value is so low, that nobody cares if you make it, third, in a despotic system your own attempts at planning usually don’t work, so you don’t learn to do it, and planning is what’s needed for more honest behavior to be advantageous.
Same for me. It was particularly vexing seeing a child pee into a plant outside an open shopping mall in the center of Shanghai. The restrooms are free, why not just take your kid inside??? The other thing that got me was people refusing to let you off the subway first before they make a mad dash looking for seats. The same happens on the elevators, but there aren’t seats so that one is even more confusing.
That’s a society which had lots of hierarchy and very little social or even territorial mobility until very recently. And those people’s ancestors were likely peasants who’d just live all their lives growing crops in very scary conditions.
I mean, I’ve heard these things about China and manners.
I’ve event heard maybe not so scary, but similar things about Russia and manners in the early XX century (since I live in Russia, I do believe they are correct).
I certainly agree with the possible cause. The part I can’t figure out is the lack of logic in the actions. Why try to push into the people attempting to get off the elevator when one could just wait a few seconds and get on in a more efficient manner? It all seems to increase the time it takes.
I’ve been told that many generations grew up in conditions where they had to fight and struggle for everything. If they allowed someone else to go first or get something before them, then they would lose out. Only oneself and family, everyone else is one their own. I suppose this overrides the logic I mentioned that is missing in the scenarios. I don’t think they’re trying to be rude, they’ve just been taught since birth that if you want or need something (like getting on an elevator), then you do it however you can that ensures success. In the elevator example, if you do wait for people to get off, others might not and could fill up the elevator before you get on, thus leaving you to wait for possibly several more minutes.
Well, analogy is not a sufficient method of argumentation by itself, but I suppose things I’ll write would be even more visible in Chinese villages 100 years ago.
In Russia the peasant commune as an institution was created artificially (so all those Russian narodniks glorifying it as something perfect and wonderful untouched by bureaucratic machine coming from the depth of ages were just stupid ; it’s one thing one can’t argue with Lenin about - they didn’t have a bloody idea of what that “people” they considered inherently virtuous was) somewhere around Peter the Great’s time. So it’s had enough time to mature.
That commune had enormous families living together, with the patriarch (the oldest man still able to work and do things) being basically a despot. It was literally not so rare for him to casually sleep with wives of his sons and nephews, for example (if not daughters and nieces). Nobody could refuse him.
Again, that whole family would live in one bloody place, together. No personal space or individuality at all.
In such an environment, first, you don’t act differently (either you’ll seem weak or you’ll cause envy, both are worse than any gained efficiency justifies), second, your value is so low, that nobody cares if you make it, third, in a despotic system your own attempts at planning usually don’t work, so you don’t learn to do it, and planning is what’s needed for more honest behavior to be advantageous.
So yes, you are right.