An official FBI document dated January 2021, obtained by the American association “Property of People” through the Freedom of Information Act.

This document summarizes the possibilities for legal access to data from nine instant messaging services: iMessage, Line, Signal, Telegram, Threema, Viber, WeChat, WhatsApp and Wickr. For each software, different judicial methods are explored, such as subpoena, search warrant, active collection of communications metadata (“Pen Register”) or connection data retention law (“18 USC§2703”). Here, in essence, is the information the FBI says it can retrieve:

  • Apple iMessage: basic subscriber data; in the case of an iPhone user, investigators may be able to get their hands on message content if the user uses iCloud to synchronize iMessage messages or to back up data on their phone.

  • Line: account data (image, username, e-mail address, phone number, Line ID, creation date, usage data, etc.); if the user has not activated end-to-end encryption, investigators can retrieve the texts of exchanges over a seven-day period, but not other data (audio, video, images, location).

  • Signal: date and time of account creation and date of last connection.

  • Telegram: IP address and phone number for investigations into confirmed terrorists, otherwise nothing.

  • Threema: cryptographic fingerprint of phone number and e-mail address, push service tokens if used, public key, account creation date, last connection date.

  • Viber: account data and IP address used to create the account; investigators can also access message history (date, time, source, destination).

  • WeChat: basic data such as name, phone number, e-mail and IP address, but only for non-Chinese users.

  • WhatsApp: the targeted person’s basic data, address book and contacts who have the targeted person in their address book; it is possible to collect message metadata in real time (“Pen Register”); message content can be retrieved via iCloud backups.

  • Wickr: Date and time of account creation, types of terminal on which the application is installed, date of last connection, number of messages exchanged, external identifiers associated with the account (e-mail addresses, telephone numbers), avatar image, data linked to adding or deleting.

TL;DR Signal is the messaging system that provides the least information to investigators.

  • Melpomene@kbin.social
    44·
    2 years ago

    Thanks for the great summary! Also a good reminder to people that storing your backups on a “as secure as we decide it is” service like iCloud isn’t ideal if you want to protect your data from government snooping.

    Edited to remove pre-coffee salt and lack of nuance.

    • Leigh@beehaw.orgMEnglish
      29·
      2 years ago

      This perspective lacks nuance.

      a service like iCloud is a bad idea if you care about your privacy

      Like all security and privacy measures, you have to consider your threat profile. From whom are you trying to maintain privacy from? If it’s other people or companies, then using a service like this is perfectly okay. If you’re worried about state actors or governmental agencies coming after you, then you have a very different set of requirements and considerations than most people, and you should plan accordingly.

      But saying that services like this aren’t for people who care about their privacy is a little disingenuous. As with all things, it’s a matter of degrees.

      • Melpomene@kbin.social
        10·
        2 years ago

        Fair point… and I’ll edit the comment to reflect that. Thanks for catching the lack of nuance… guess fasting for 24 hours has me both tired and salty.

      • Snapz@beehaw.orgEnglish
        5·
        2 years ago

        Learn from Reddit, don’t give corporations the power to do so and they can’t inevitably abuse that power.

        • Melpomene@kbin.social
          7·
          2 years ago

          It’s not so much Apple is bad as “commercial providers, including Apple, aren’t great at privacy.”

          • fades@beehaw.org
            0·
            2 years ago

            I (and many others) would argue Apple is great at privacy, unless you are trying to hide from subpoenas

            • Melpomene@kbin.social
              1·
              2 years ago

              Or you’re living or working somewhere that can force Apple to scan your phone for particular dissident files. I much prefer that my data is inaccessible by my providers.

      • mobyduck648@beehaw.orgEnglish
        3·
        2 years ago

        I feel a lot of people get ‘dragnet surveillance against everyone on the internet’ mixed up with ‘being actively under pressure from a state-level actor’. If the likes of MI5 or the FBI were genuinely after someone they’d need a lot more than an encrypted messaging service and a VPN to avoid them.

        I like my current setup but I’m under no illusion it would do much at all against the ‘electric cattle prod and water-boarding’ school of decryption exploits.

    • xray@beehaw.org
      7·
      2 years ago

      Generally agree, but this document is also from January 2021. Apple brought E2EE to almost all aspects of iCloud in December 2022 including iCloud Backups. It’s opt-in, so theoretically, if you were having a conversation with a contact who didn’t opt-in to E2EE but backed up their iMessages to iCloud, the government could still access your messages via that contact even if you opted-in to E2EE, but still.

    • Azzu@discuss.tchncs.de
      3·
      2 years ago

      Also depends on if the backup is properly encrypted. If it is, security of whatever storage you use is pretty irrelevant.

  • argv_minus_one@beehaw.orgEnglish
    42·
    2 years ago

    Takeaways:

    • End-to-end encryption works.
    • The only trustworthy computer is your computer. Don’t use cloud storage.
    • The only trustworthy software is open-source software. Proprietary software serves the interests of the proprietor, not the user.

    All of this was already well-known, of course, but it’s always nice to get confirmation.

  • ozoned@beehaw.orgEnglish
    24·
    2 years ago

    No mention of Matrix. Wonder if it’s not on their radar, or they have nothing, or just wasn’t important to put it on there?

    • jackattackson@lemm.eeEnglish
      8·
      2 years ago

      I’m wondering the same thing.

      I am a long time signal user but I just started using Matrix yesterday and now I’m very curious about whether Signal or Matrix is better somehow in terms of security/privacy.

      • ozoned@beehaw.orgEnglish
        21·
        2 years ago

        I stopped using Signal after they said no alternate clients, then got into crypto, then introduce a proprietary shim to their stack.

        I plan on someday actually running my own Matrix server for myself and family, right now I’m on Matrix.org though. At this point I don’t know how folks recommend Signal over Matrix. There are a lot of clients, so maybe the choice of clients is too confusing? IDK.

        But anyone saying Matrix isn’t easy enough for non-tech folks to understand, my sister, niece, even wife set up Element themselves on their phones without issue. My father and step-mother both use Element with us. I configured it but they know how to message and do video chat and things.

        • jackattackson@lemm.eeEnglish
          7·
          2 years ago

          Thanks for sharing! I really want to get my family on Matrix now.

          We have not been able to find a solid chat/video call app that the entire family (various ages and tech aptitude) can effectively use. We’ve been bouncing around to various apps since COVID lockdowns started. We had been using Slack for a while but the video calling in Slack is unusable now.

          • ozoned@beehaw.orgEnglish
            4·
            2 years ago

            We do voice and video chat every week with my family and it seems to work incredibly well. No real issues with any of it.

        • dismalnow@kbin.social
          3·
          2 years ago

          ̷W̷̶̷h̷̶̷i̷̶̷l̷̶̷e̷̶̷ ̷̶̷F̷̶̷r̷̶̷a̷̶̷n̷̶̷c̷̶̷e̷̶̷ ̷̶̷i̷̶̷s̷̶̷n̷̶̷’̷̶̷t̷̶̷ ̷̶̷a̷̶̷ ̷̶̷p̷̶̷a̷̶̷r̷̶̷t̷̶̷ ̷̶̷o̷̶̷f̷̶̷ ̷̶̷F̷̶̷V̷̶̷E̷̶̷Y̷̶̷ ̷̶̷"̷̶̷t̷̶̷h̷̶̷e̷̶̷ ̷̶̷f̷̶̷i̷̶̷v̷̶̷e̷̶̷ ̷̶̷e̷̶̷y̷̶̷e̷̶̷s̷̶̷ ̷̶̷a̷̶̷l̷̶̷l̷̶̷i̷̶̷a̷̶̷n̷̶̷c̷̶̷e̷̶̷"̷̶̷,̷̶̷ ̷̶̷i̷̶̷t̷̶̷ ̷̶̷i̷̶̷s̷̶̷ ̷̶̷e̷̶̷x̷̶̷t̷̶̷r̷̶̷e̷̶̷m̷̶̷e̷̶̷l̷̶̷y̷̶̷ ̷̶̷l̷̶̷i̷̶̷k̷̶̷e̷̶̷l̷̶̷y̷̶̷ ̷̶̷t̷̶̷h̷̶̷a̷̶̷t̷̶̷ ̷̶̷i̷̶̷t̷̶̷ ̷̶̷i̷̶̷s̷̶̷ ̷̶̷c̷̶̷o̷̶̷m̷̶̷p̷̶̷r̷̶̷o̷̶̷m̷̶̷i̷̶̷s̷̶̷e̷̶̷d̷̶̷ ̷̶̷b̷̶̷e̷̶̷c̷̶̷a̷̶̷u̷̶̷s̷̶̷e̷̶̷ ̷̶̷M̷̶̷a̷̶̷t̷̶̷r̷̶̷i̷̶̷x̷̶̷ ̷̶̷w̷̶̷a̷̶̷s̷̶̷ ̷̶̷c̷̶̷r̷̶̷e̷̶̷a̷̶̷t̷̶̷e̷̶̷d̷̶̷ ̷̶̷b̷̶̷y̷̶̷ ̷̶̷t̷̶̷h̷̶̷e̷̶̷ ̷̶̷F̷̶̷r̷̶̷e̷̶̷n̷̶̷c̷̶̷h̷̶̷ ̷̶̷g̷̶̷o̷̶̷v̷̶̷e̷̶̷r̷̶̷n̷̶̷m̷̶̷e̷̶̷n̷̶̷t̷̶̷ ̷̶̷i̷̶̷n̷̶̷ ̷̶̷2̷̶̷0̷̶̷1̷̶̷8̷̶̷.̷̶̷ ̷̶̷ ̷̶̷

          Keep in mind that op’s foia request is from 2021.

          Edit - I’m misremembering. Disregard.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_(protocol)

          The initial project was created inside Amdocs, while building a chat tool called “Amdocs Unified Communications”,[4] by Matthew Hodgson and Amandine Le Pape [fr]. Amdocs then funded most of the development work from 2014 to October 2017.[5] Matrix was the winner of the Innovation award at WebRTC 2014 Conference & Expo,[6] and of the “Best in Show” award at WebRTC World in 2015.[7]

          • space@beehaw.org
            14·
            2 years ago

            Fact check: the French govt did not create Matrix.

            Matrix is an open protocol created in 2014, for an Israel-based private company.

            In 2018 the french govt decided to use a verson of that protocol in their own chatting network.

            • dismalnow@kbin.social
              2·
              2 years ago

              Thanks, and apologies. I’ve edited out my idiocy. Misremembered, and was thinking of something else.

    • worfamerryman@beehaw.orgEnglish
      5·
      2 years ago

      I think it is because it is a bit nuanced. I used to host a matrix server and if the FBI was like hey, give us the data to something.

      I’d just give them anything they wanted. I did not allow signups, I only gave access to one friend and only had it setup as a learning project.

      I’m sure my friend wouldn’t do anything shady on it, I’ve been close friends with him for about 30 years. But I’m not going to fight the fbi on their behalf. Plus, if they were using the server for something that the fbi needed to get involved with, I’d be pissed they used my server to do it.

      tl:dr anyone can host a matrix instance and each host could have different levels of access.

    • worfamerryman@beehaw.orgEnglish
      1·
      2 years ago

      I think it is because it is a bit nuanced. I used to host a matrix server and if the FBI was like hey, give us the data to something.

      I’d just give them anything they wanted. I did not allow signups, I only gave access to one friend and only had it setup as a learning project.

      I’m sure my friend wouldn’t do anything shady on it, I’ve been close friends with him for about 30 years. But I’m not going to fight the fbi on their behalf. Plus, if they were using the server for something that the fbi needed to get involved with, I’d be pissed they used my server to do it.

      tl:dr anyone can host a matrix instance and each host could have different levels of access.

  • NotSteve_@beehaw.orgEnglish
    19·
    2 years ago

    I’m actually surprised they can’t get more WhatsApp data considering it’s Facebook. I know WhatsApp’s thing is encryption but… It’s Facebook

    • Steeve@lemmy.caEnglish
      1·
      2 years ago

      There’s a lot of misinformation about Facebook on Reddit. They absolutely deserve scrutiny, but their main problem has always been growing too big too fast and all regular capitalism stuff. If you actually look further into their scandals than Reddit comment sections it becomes apparent that most of their issues (Cambridge Analytica, general misinformation, hate speech, etc) comes from just regular ol corporate incompetence at a massive scale rather than maliciousness. I don’t know if that makes anyone feel any better lol.

      They are trying to turn it around though and they’re investing a shit ton in privacy and trying to tackle “bad actors” and misinformation problems on their platforms (because I guess the scrutiny worked). They’re pushing heavily for Messenger to be fully E2EE like WhatsApp, so it’s pretty clear that they want to work with local law enforcement about as much as you want them to.

      They should definitely be heavily scrutinized, but I think a lot of the Meta criticism goes past constructive conversation and into rage-fueled hate, especially on Reddit and other competing social medias.

  • flashgnash@lemm.eeEnglish
    13·
    2 years ago

    This makes me suspicious though, surely if they’ve declassified this that means they want people to see it, so isn’t there a very real chance it’s intentionally misleading?

    • bbbhltz@beehaw.orgOPEnglish
      22·
      2 years ago

      I think that today, in 2023, some of the information here is outdated. We know that different messages can be intercepted and decrypted. It is labelled as unclassified, which I think might be different from declassified?

      • SenorBolsa@beehaw.orgEnglish
        14·
        2 years ago

        Correct it’s labeled as unclassed sensitive info for law enforcement. That just means “don’t share this shit on facebook”

    • pixelpop3@programming.devEnglish
      3·
      2 years ago

      Basically it’s what they have decided to disclose to law enforcement. So at best it tells you the baseline capabilities of law enforcement.

  • [email protected]@lemmy.federate.ccEnglish
    11·
    2 years ago

    iMessage is now fully secure like Signal and Telegram, if you’ve enabled advanced data protection in your Apple ID. This also protects your photos and other personal information from snooping and data breaches. Apple users should turn on this great feature in Settings -> iCloud.

  • tram1@programming.devEnglish
    10·
    2 years ago

    Telegram states at their site that: “To this day, we have disclosed 0 bytes of user data to third parties, including governments.”

    But according to Spiegel this is false. I don’t know German, I read the article using google translate, correct me if I’m wrong.

    Here is a quote from the article: “Contrary to what has been publicly stated so far, the operators of the messenger app Telegram have released user data to the Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) in several cases.”

    If this is true, the fact that they are lying is very worrying…

    • hare_ware@pawb.socialEnglish
      2·
      2 years ago

      I distinctly remember Telegram having given a phone number and account creation date for someone to a government, they didn’t have anything else to provide allegedly.

      • tram1@programming.devEnglish
        3·
        2 years ago

        I don’t think this is what they mean. If you read the whole paragraph they also talk about “[…]the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption”…

        It says that they have nothing to give on Secret chats, and then: “To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption[…]” … “Thanks to this structure, we can ensure[…]” … “To this day, we have disclosed 0 bytes of user data to third parties, including governments.”

        I mean, I would consider phone numbers, IPs, metadata, non-secret chats (I don’t know if that’s a thing, never used Telegram), to be “user data”.

        • Lexi Sneptaur@pawb.socialEnglish
          3·
          2 years ago

          I agree with you here, I’m simply playing devils advocate as to how Telegram can get away with this claim. I trust secret chats on Telegram and use them with my more… spicy acquaintances.

  • Schedar@beehaw.orgEnglish
    10·
    2 years ago

    Wonder what a difference it now makes with the iCloud “advanced Data protection” that provides end to end encryption for iCloud backups etc. in theory that should block the iCloud backup route.

    • aroom@kbin.social
      1·
      2 years ago

      I guess if you enable it on your device you are safe, but if your content is on another device that doesn’t enable it (it’s an opt in option), your content will be available.

      • codus@leby.devEnglish
        3·
        2 years ago

        Advanced data protection is across your entire account, not per device. According to Apple’s documentation they rotate the keys locally on your devices and then delete them from their services so they no longer have a key to give.

    • TooL@kbin.social
      1·
      2 years ago

      Right? The data they can collect there is pretty much entirely useless unless they can also gather the location of last connection. But even then, not terribly helpful.