I saw a post that talked about racism towards people and when I talked about it the response I got was very heated and a person even called lemmy.world a community of ‘hitlerites’
I have been around for a week or so and this is my first time seeing such explicit vulgar reaction towards another community, is this a one-off or should I block hexbear?
Honestly, if you’re not a communist, the less you know the better.
It’s not even about being a communist. It’s about being a tankie.
Would you be willing to explain the difference? I don’t know and I did do a google on it awhile back and I guess if I learned anything it didn’t stick…
Signed: idiot on the internet who wants to know these things.
“Tankie” is a derogatory term for Marxist-Leninists. We support AES or “actually existing socialist” states, in contrast to left idealists who support every revolution except the ones that actually succeed, which can always be imagined as perfect because the never had to confront practical reality. We’re known for our opposition to war (except class war) and belief in multipolarity, which is the idea that one nation shouldn’t be the lone superpower with hegemony around the world, and we treat the media with reasonable skepticism when it tries to tell us who to hate - ironically, these traits cause us to be characterized as militaristic, authoritarian, and blindly gullible.
People who have never read any communist theory beyond the Manifesto (if that) don’t think we’re real communists because they have no idea what they’re talking about.
Someone else already commented how tankies got their name.
Tankies in the comments can generally be recognized by:
- Anything that a liberal democratic country does is bad.
- Authoritarian regimes such as China, Venezuela, Russia, North-Korea, … are somehow the good guys, no matter how well documented their transgressions against human rights are. Tankies defend Russia’s invasion of Ukraine for example.
- Because tankies want to present some atrocious regimes and people as the good guys, they have to twist the truth a lot. So they constantly lie and misrepresent/omit facts to push their false narrative.
- Since they’re not interested in an actual discussion or non tankie viewpoints, they employ non-constructive discussion techniques to score points and “win” arguments. And this last bullet point is mostly why everyone else hates them.
The last point especially for Hexbear. Holy shit you have to see it. It’s like walking into 4chan if it were a highschool with their endless meme train circlejerk and single image replies all the while being shitheads in bad faith.
Tankie was initially someone who didn’t have an issue with running over protestors in a tank in support of their beliefs, and has grown to include anyone willing to use violent means in support of communist ideals.
Current examples include supporting Russia or blaming Ukraine for the conflict, or supporting China invading Taiwan.
I don’t think it has grown to include that (or I don’t think it should have grown, if it actually has and I didn’t notice).
Any revolution will require violent means. That doesn’t inherently make it bad, just sad. It depends who is the target of the violence.
There aren’t many Americans who condemn the American revolution for it’s violence against the British, for example.You can have non violent revolutions.
Revolution varies in the quantity of violence required, but requires at minimum threat of violence. You can’t have a revolution by asking politiely and tying your hands behind your back.
Of course not, you do it sneakily in the shadows gradually until it’s too late.
You see the beauty of my proposal is It needn’t wait on general revolution. I bid you to a one-man revolution— The only revolution that is coming.
I’m skeptical of that claim, but it’s not really important.
To say that any communist that supports violence as a means is a tankie is to say all communists are tankies.
But given that violence alone doesn’t make a revolution bad, and that tankie is a perjorative, then that definition isn’t fair or even really meaningful.
you don’t seem to have an issue when it comes to running over Palestinians with tanks, most ‘tankies’ seem to actually be opposed to sending in the tanks.
I’m not sure how you got running people over with tanks from that, but OK.
It’s pretty clear from your moderation and post history that you’re some form of noxious centrist extremist.
Centrist extremist is a new label for me.
For the record, I don’t support either party in that nightmare.
As far as I am aware, the primary difference is that tankies are authoritarian. They got their name from denying the tiananmen square massacre, saying either it was “peaceful” or “non-existent.” I’ve seen many express positive opinions towards China and North Korea while ignoring or denying things like mass censorship in both countries, China’s concentration camps of Uyghur Muslims or the fact that people and their families risk death if they try to flee North Korea.
I typically add a user note to all tankies I encounter or I just block them.
0·3 months agoThe name actually came from British communists that supported the USSR sending tanks into Hungary in '56.
Ok that does seem correct. I’ve just always heard from others that it was the tainanmen square massacre that gave them their name.
How unsurprising that someone going around calling people tankies doesn’t actually know anything
I continue to say: Wikipedia itself states that between 0 and 1 people died in Tienanmen Square. Nobody denies protests happened elsewhere.
That’s not even remotely true.
Here is what wikipedia actually says
The number of deaths and the extent of bloodshed in the square itself have been in dispute since the events. The government actively suppressed discussion of casualty figures immediately after the events, and estimates rely heavily on eyewitness testimony, hospital records, and organised efforts by victims’ relatives. As a result, large discrepancies exist among various casualty estimates. Initial estimates ranged from the official figure of a few hundred to several thousand.
I would ask them in their Q&A comm
Oh another one of these
Short answer:
“What if 4chan was communist instead of neonazi”
Similar level of assholety and low post quality. Better politics. Overall don’t bother, not worth it.
“What if 4chan was communist instead of neonazi”
Not quite, that would be /leftypol/
Better politics.
This reminds me of one of their site banners:
Hexbear has its origins on Reddit’s ChapoTrapHouse which I’m pretty sure has a connection to leftypol in its history.
But sure
My point is:
Hexbear = Jerkoffs, except class conscious
Would be nice if they weren’t jerkoffs but hey, at least they have class consciousness.
This analysis isn’t quite accurate. On the whole, Hexbear is actually one of the kindest and coolest and community-minded places I’ve ever been on the internet. But I’d agree there’s an issue of a portion of users who happily get overly aggro if you annoy them (and being allowed to get away with it).
lmao the blatant transphobia “disengage with the largest trans safe space on lemmy”
you’re so obvious
even if one assumes your trollish comment was in good faith, it only takes a single glance at hexbears front page to see it’s filled with kindness and reason. just people having fun online while still making space for serious discussion. and again, making sure marginalized people are safe and welcome. I wonder what your real issue with the site is?
seriously, what other site allows trans people to safely and comfortably be ourselves like this? https://hexbear.net/post/4271750
If you think Hexbear is trans-friendly, then you’re transphobic.
If you think Hexbear is trans-friendly, then you’re transphobic.
No, lol.
Someone complaining about being harassed by transphobic chasers and you said “good”, it’s for allies.
bruh wtf
Leate’s modlog is filled with homophobia and transphobia under the guise of being an ally, this is a pattern and not a one-off.
Many such cases tbh, so many of these types are extremely quick to accuse others of ‘faking’ their positions and it’s always projection.
100%. Leate in particular has a nasty habit of suicide baiting and blocking anyone who calls him out, DM harrassment, and more. The loudest complainers about Hexbear are overwhelmingly the ones who got banned for bigotry, which they think they can hide by not mentioning that factor.
I’ve noticed that in .world spaces that users will bring up suicide unprompted, or call me mentally ill, only to delete their posts before moderation happens
This is a very bad take. It is well-documented that Hexbear’s userbase is around 50% trans, and has a well-developed moderation team in order to protect their userbase. Discounting trans people because they disagree with you politically is in fact transphobia.
Transphobia is when you disagree with a liberal about anything, regardless of how much you support and respect trans people, apparently.
That’s a bold claim. A quick look at their top communities list (one of the top 15 being explicitly a ‘community for transgender and gender diverse people’) and the first two rules of their CoC make it seem especially trans friendly.
MLs are incredibly good at hypocrisy.
one of the top 15 being explicitly a ‘community for transgender and gender diverse people’
And as we all know if someone says they’re a certain way that makes it so!
This level of naivete seems to be a requirement for being on .ml
If only there was a way to verify their claim so you weren’t forced to take their word for it.
Look, maybe you’re right. But this was one of the lamest responses to someone bringing receipts that I’ve ever seen.
someone bringing receipts
That didn’t happen here, cute
No, you’re right, it isn’t receipts to actually go and check to see what are the popular communities, and pale in comparison to your assertion that this is simply a case of how people sometimes misrepresent themselves, to which you provided the ironclad evidence of “trust me bro”.
You are truly a bastion of intellectual rigor. Bravo, sir, bravo
Since you’re bringing up instance stereotypes, I have to say I’m disappointed to see baseless conspiracy claims from a dbzer0 user. dbzer0 is usually decent.
And as we all know if someone says they’re a certain way that makes it so!
Are you implying that this active community is somehow just an elaborate hoax? Why?
Are you implying that this active community is somehow just an elaborate hoax?
Oh, nice, a lack of reading comprehension as well
Look, there’s no reason to disbelieve here. If they claim to be trans, and they try to have trans-friendly policies, and keep talking about trans issues, why go this route?
Is your greater point that they’re pretending to be mostly trans as a way to use their trans-identity as a shield for criticism? If so, criticize that when they do it. The counter-argument to “you can’t criticize me because I’m trans” shouldn’t be “you’re not trans”, it should be “being trans is not a defense”. Ya follow?
And if the argument is that hexbear want to appear more trans in order to “virtual signal”, then I’d say there’s plenty to criticize about the way they run their instance, we don’t need to try and deny anything good they do.
Look, there’s no reason to disbelieve here.
Everyone just pretending it’s not hex ear we’re talking about
HB tend to be vary campist and do tend to rely on bad faith and hypocrisy a lot, but I don’t have them as act as direct liars.
Thank you for this. I find it really frustrating seeing open transphobia go unmoderated (comments calling out the transphobia get removed instead) because it’s directed at a ‘safe’ target on the instance.
Transphobia is still transphobia even if it’s your political enemies.
There’s 7 featured posts, which I assume are stickies made by the moderators. The 3rd post after that, so the 3rd actual popular post, is “fucking libs are still making excuses in the comments”. Such kindness and reason …
Funny how you don’t say anything about what that post is actually about - it’s about redditors excusing Kamala’s support for Israel. They aren’t kind to you if you defend the mass slaughter of civilians, no.
It seems to me that showing equal kindness to oppressor and oppressed would be supporting the oppressor.
Deragotory language, generalization & stigmatization. It is hate speech against all liberal minded people, there is nothing kind or reasonable about it.
Hate speech? Is “lib” a slur now? Are liberals a protected class? It’s not “hate speech” it’s just criticism of a political position.
“A pejorative word, phrase, slur, or derogatory term is a word or grammatical form expressing a negative or disrespectful connotation, a low opinion, or a lack of respect toward someone or something.[1] It is also used to express criticism, hostility, or disregard.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pejorative
So yes, it’s a slur.
Lmao. Guess we better update the slur filter to remove all instances of the word “lib.” Sorry, am I allowed to say it in quotes like that, or is it too offensive?
To be clear, If you truly believe lib is a slur, then you also believe “tankie” is a slur but is justified.
Rather than making a silly argument equating pejoratives for political positions being equal to slurs based on immutable characteristics, you could just not do that.
Literally got banned from a world com for using “lib” as a slur. Honestly, they’re not a protected class but they’re such idiots post election loss that it might as well be a slur. They have zero self reflection and are blaming everybody but themselves for the landslide loss of the presidency, the house, the senate, state and local government positions. Everyone else just voted wrong and hates minorities you see.
There is literally nothing transphohic about their comment, what the hell are you on about? People don’t like Hexbear because it’s trans-friendly, people dislike it because of their tankie politics and users that act like edgy 14 year olds.
Tank goes vroooooommm.
Nobody mentioned blahaj broski
when i used blahaj i was harassed by transphobic chasers. it is NOT a safe space.
Good. It’s for allies, so I hope you’d be criticized if you went there.
Defending chasers attacking someone is transphobic, and you need to do some serious self-crit if you consider yourself an ally. However, elsewhere in this thread you are attacking transgender individuals and accusing them of “faking it,” so this is a pattern and not a one-off.
You mean being dubious of an online poll
Better politics.
The same way getting stabbed is better than taking a round of buckshot.
Flashback three months and you were supporting a genocide
Bullshit.
Removed by mod
Abstentionism is transphobic.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
is it possible for lemmy user to “federate them in”/include in single feed?
Hexbear.net is a Left-Unity instance populated mainly by Marxists and Anarchists. They generally don’t get along with Lemmy.world, whose admins defederated from the major Marxist-aligned instances.
Whether you block Hexbear is up to you, I enjoy my time there a lot but it’s also because I’m a Marxist.
The reason they got defederated from so many major instances is less to do with the politics and more to do with the spam, brigading, and bad faith interactions that had no intention of civility.
This is objectively untrue, Lemmy.world refused to ever federate, as, in their own words, a “pre-emptive last resort”.
In their statement, the reasoning they explicitly highlighted was Hexbear’s stances like being against western propaganda and disliking the mass overseas wars driven by the US. Don’t believe me? You can read it here - https://lemmy.world/post/2498330
So no, Hexbear was very explicitly defederated because of politics.
The world mods also outright support Israel.
You can tell someone is terminally reddit brained when they’re still accusing people from federated instances of “brigading”.
Left-Unity instance
I doubt it or I’d be over there. Instead, I got attacked and mocked by a circlejerking mob of angsty teens from Hexbear operating in bad faith for remotely questioning something about communism and then got permabanned from Lemmy.ml. I didn’t even attack it! 😂
Do you have a link? Would be interested to see.
Remember that they don’t consider liberals to be leftists
I really don’t think they are a left-unity instance considering that they get very upset and unpleasant to talk to if you don’t support authoritarianism or their alternative “facts.”
Like I’m cool with all sorts of different leftist viewpoints and I think it’s necessary that we support each other, but I draw the line at authoritarianism and rewriting history.
I don’t really understand what you’re getting at here, you’re being very vague. I’m a Marxist, I enjoy my time there, I don’t really think I can say I share your same views on it.
When the instance I’m on was still federated with hexbear I did go and check them out to see what they had to say and with my own two eyes I saw people there denying the tiananmen square massacre and claiming that North Korea is a free and prosperous nation. Not to mention that when visiting other instances, such as the one I’m on, many would be extremely rude, which is why they got defederated.
Hexbear’s stance, and most Marxists in general, on Tian’anmen is that hundreds of protestors and PLA officers were killed in Beijing that day as the PLA advanced towards the square, but that the square itself was evacuated peacrfully, which matches leaked US cables and the CPC’s official stance on what it calls the “June 4th incident”. This is a rejection of the commonly reported story of 10,000 people being killed on the square itself, which originated from a British diplomat’s cable. Said diplomat was later confirmed to have evacuated well before.
I reiterate, Hexbear’s stance isn’t that the massacre didn’t happen, but that Western nations intentionally sensationalize the quantity of deaths and the character of the events. This is also why Western Nations don’t frequently report on the South Korean Gwang-Ju massacre that occured around the same era, where the South Korean millitary murdered thousands of High School and College students protesting against Chun Do-Hwan’s dictatorship. All of what I said is backed up by the Wikipedia page for Tian’anmen Square Protests and Massacre, such as Alan Donald revising his estimate from 10,000 to the low thousands yet BBC continuing to report the 10,000 figure:
In a disputed cable sent in the aftermath of the events at Tiananmen, British Ambassador Alan Donald initially claimed, based on information from a “good friend” in the State Council of China, that a minimum of 10,000 civilians died,[237] claims which were repeated in a speech by Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke,[238] but which is an estimated number much higher than other sources provided.[239][240] After the declassification, former student protest leader Feng Congde pointed out that Donald later revised his estimate to 2,700–3,400 deaths, a number closer to, but still much higher than, other estimates.[241]
As for the DPRK, I’d have to see what you mean as an example. The common consensus is that the DPRK has a well-documented “defector storytelling industry” where defectors are paid for outlandish stories, and due to their unverifiability gets passed on as truth. A good documentary on this subject is Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul. Therefore, really, very little can be trusted on the subject.
Anarchists are explicitly welcome, so authoritarianism is definitely not a requirement. And what “alternative facts”?
Things like the denial of the tiananmen square massacre or claiming that North Korea is a free and prosperous nation, both of which I have seen with my own two eyes on hexbear.
While I am not an anarchist, generally I am cool with them. Who I am not cool with are Marxist-Leninists, which are authoritarian.
From the wikipedia article on Marxist-Leninists:
In the words of historians Silvio Pons and Robert Service, elections are “generally not competitive, with voters having no choice or only a strictly limited choice”. Generally, when alternative candidates have been allowed to stand for election, they have not been allowed to promote very different political views.
The people of the soviet union, at least as far as Pat Sloan experienced in ~1937, had the most limited choice: any person
I have, while working in the Soviet Union, participated in an election. I, too, had a right to vote, as I was a working member of the community, and nationality and citizenship is no bar to electoral rights. The procedure was extremely simple. A general meeting of all the workers in our organization was called by the trade union committee, candidates were discussed, and a vote was taken by show of hands. Anybody present had the right to propose a candidate, and the one who was elected was not personally a member of the Party. In considering the claims of the candidates their past activities were discussed, they themselves had to answer questions as to their qualifications, anybody could express an opinion, for or against them, and the basis of all the discussion was: What justification had the candidates to represent their comrades on the local Soviet?
As far as the elections in the villages were concerned, these took place at open village meetings, all peasants of voting age, other than those who employed labour, having the right to vote and to stand for election. As in the towns, any organization or individual could put forward candidates, anyone could ask the candidate questions, and anybody could support or oppose the candidature. It is usual for the Communist Party to put forward a candidate, trade unions and other organizations can also do so, and there is nothing to prevent the Party’s candidate from not being elected, if he has not sufficient prestige among the voters.https://comlib.encryptionin.space/lib/html/soviet-democracy/soviet-democracy_files/chapter13.xhtml (EPUB)
Several things in there I dislike:
Raising hands does not seem like an accurate way vote. Peasants who employed labor couldn’t vote. People could vote even if they weren’t citizens. No mention of being able to vote for non-communists. There are trade-unions and other candidates but it doesn’t mention their political alignment
No mention of being able to vote for non-communists
???
Anybody present had the right to propose a candidate, the one who was elected was not personally a member of the Party
???
To defend non-citizens voting, the Soviets valued labor over nationalism and anyone could vote despite not being citizens if they worked there. Kinda like if the US allowed immigrants to vote who weren’t yet citizens.
Trade Unions were often independent as well. Really, the book itself is fascinating.
I support immigration but allowing non-citizens to vote seems like an easy way for foreign governments to swing elections in their favor.
Yes, I get that the trade unions were their own thing but that doesn’t mean they can’t also be communist.
Credit where credit is due, youre honest and youre correct. Have my upvote!
I try to be both, lol. Thanks!
The issue with hexbear isn’t Marxism or anarchism or communism, it’s apologism for violent authoritarian regimes to the point of insisting on an “alternative facts” version of “history”.
Alternative facts is when you refuse to admit you were wrong after carrying water for a single source white supremacist even when all the major media platforms that boosted the claim dropped it years ago.
So for years, as a ‘good leftist’, you continue repeating blood libel while you scream at people to support a capitalist committing genocide.
I really can’t tell what you are talking about.
Adrian Zenz
I’ll do you one better, why is Hexbear??
“A self help group for people who struggle with solvent abuse.”
Best answer in this thread.
I just took a look at your participation in the hexbear thread you are referencing, and I’m confused about the issue. Seems like you got mostly thoughtful and positive replies. There was some .world bashing at the end including the bit you quoted. It seems strange to me that rather than ask questions about hexbear to the actual users there, you came over here to ask on an instance that has daily threads complaining about leftist instances.
Hexbear is cool. I’ve learned a lot from them. the thing is, some of the people there can be a little brash at first. I recommend looking around the instance a bit before you decide on blocking it. some of them can be a little brash but they mean well.
This is an extremely reasonable take, not sure why anyone would downvote you for it other than tribalism.
if anything, they are just proving them right about their instance. but it is what it is, there will always be tribalism on the internet and in the world.
You found it, the answer is tribalism.
Hexbear has proven so many times to be completely unreasonable that it isn’t worth wading through that much toxicity to find the good parts.
I have not had that experience, at all. If anything I’ve had that experience on .world.
Its a leftist space that sometimes has trolls
“Sometimes” is an understatement. Their entire purpose for federating with other instances is to attack and “dunk” on anyone who remotely disagrees with them.
It’s something every sane person should block as soon as they join Lemmy.
https://sh.itjust.works/c/meanwhileongrad
One word, Tankies.
The community I shared rounds up posts that really portray their
PhalusophyPhilosophy really well. Now you would need to scroll down a bit to see some posts from hexbear specifically.but I cannot recommend you enough to stay well away from hexbear, lemmygrad and if possible .ml
It’s a tankie instance. You’re not missing anything important or reality-based by blocking it. You should also block lemmy.ml.
They seem like grad users in the fact that no one outside their instance wants to federate with their toxic instance. Who would’ve guessed that a highly charged instances calls people “Hitlerites” as an insult. (Obv I lack context here regarding the comment.)
They’re straight up delusional morons.
For transparency, you were banned not only from Hexbear but from other instances for racism, misogyny, transphobia, and COVID denial.
Mostly for pointing out you people are retards, if we wanna be honest, not for filling out your fucking bingo card.
Mind clarifying which part you are using ableist attacks on?
God you people are dumb.
Who do you mean by “you people?” Which category are you specifically targeting here? Which box am I in?
yawn
From what I’ve seen in this thread? The "good people "box.
Oh look, it’s propaganda susceptible
❤️
