My pov is that CRT (critical race theory) and related policies, like DEI, put an undue emphasis on race instead of on poverty, and the resulting effect is that policies which are aimed at helping minorities seem like “favoritism” (and called as such by political opponents), which makes a growing population of poor whites (due to the adverse effects of wealth inequality) polarized against minorities.
Separately, the polarization is used by others who want to weaken a democratic nation. For democracies, a growing immigrant population of more poor people will cause further polarization because the growing poor white population believes that “they’re taking our jobs”. This happened during Brexit, this happened with Trump, and this is happening now in Germany and other western democracies.
I know that there are racist groups who have an agenda of their own, and what I am saying is that instead of focusing on what are painted as culture war issues, leftists are better off focusing on alleviating systemic poverty. Like, bringing the Nordic model to the U.S. should be their agenda.
So, maybe I am wrong about CRT and DEI and how it’s well-meaning intentions are being abused by people who have other goals, but I want to hear from others about why they think CRT and DEI help. I want to listen, so I am not going to respond at all.
— Added definitions —
CRT: an academic field used to understand how systems and processes favor white people despite anti-discrimination policies. Analysis coming out of CRT is often used to make public policy.
DEI: a framework for increasing diversity, equity and inclusion; DEI isn’t focused on race or gender only, but also includes disability and other factors (pregnancy for example) which affect a person.
— —
Okay , so end note: I appreciate the people who commented. I questioned the relevancy of CRT/DEI previously out of an alarmed perspective of how aspects that highlight group differences can be used by others to create divisions and increase polarization. But I get the point everyone is making about the historical significance of these tools.
I see it as a “I don’t see color” kind of thing. You may be able to see it as “just” a class war, but people who may be a different race, or disabled, etc., can’t do that because those factors can change how you’re treated. Saying we should ignore it or rebrand it as a class war is disregarding the reprocussions that race plays in the class war. What communities get funding? What communities have good schools? What communities have food deserts? Who gets promoted to leadership?
Before these things came to be, America was very much class-war only in my opinion, which is why boomer white Americans did so well. They were all seen as the same community, so raising them up was raising them all up. So they had Veterans benefits and programs after the war to help them get housing and education. Unions protected their members. But those programs didn’t always extend to POC, if at all. That’s why we have to keep an eye on it. It’s not just class that affects people, and not talking about it allows the majority to pretend it isn’t happening, or is a minor issue. I think it also facilities the silencing of minorities as their issues seem “fringe” or like complaints.
The system was not built for a lot of people, and we have to keep reminding people of that. Because what’s going on in the US is showing that. They’re worried about anti-Christians and immigrants, transgenders, etc. Even if those people are also poor, that won’t save them if we just see class. A middle class, transgender woman who may have been a “good guy” is now an enemy be cause of their gender identity alone. A black man being followed in a store is not being followed for class reasons. People with disabilities having trouble just existing are not having that trouble (solely) because of class.
Getting rid of DEI/CRT makes the loudest voice everyone’s voice. And that person is usually not looking out for us.
Cathode Ray Tubes were just the best solution for the time. We got more efficient later.
DEI is racist AF! Everyone should get the same opportunities and we should not reward people for the color of their skin etc.
To the 9 people who disliked my comment (and many more who will in the future) - just think about how fucking weird it is to not want to higher certain races in favor of other races just cause you want to create artificial equity. There are literally instances where white person who is more qualified for a position will get denied in favor of let’s say black person who might be less qualified just because companies wanna fill some DEI quotas. That’s super racist. Companies should hire he best candidates (be it black, asian, white or whatever) and not some (often) mediocre candidates just cause they a certain race.
DEI is RACIST!
I think it’s the equity vs equality thing that is most problematic. Giving people a bigger slice of the pie for being themselves undermines typical economic incentives and breeds resentment. In my opinion everyone should be given the same opportunities but they need to demonstrate themselves as the most capable candidate to get a job/promotion or whatever for the system to work.
I’ve no idea what CRT is but I’d like to simply answer why DEI kinda things are needed separate from poverty alleviation.
Axiomatically, I want best person for a given job and a level playing field for all. This is the kind of society I want to build.
Say there is universal basic income or universal basic services. Yay, now anyone can get free education or wait until they get job they aspire too, etc.
Do we progress towards the kind of society mentioned previously? Likely not because there are other factors like network, culture and habits that shape how we/others view us and our capabilities. Hence, mentors, counseling, special training, etc are needed.
Listen to Mark Milley: https://www.nbcnews.com/video/gen-milley-defends-studying-critical-race-theory-in-the-military-at-house-hearing-115349061782
Read the book. The book itself is what is making the argument for CRT, not a tweet or lemmy summary. Read. Read primary sources. Read books. Think for yourself and don’t expect to be fed answers on how to think or feel all the time.
I understand and sympathize with where your coming from. I don’t have all the counter arguments, but one that stuck with me while I was devils advocating it with two of my friends stuck with me. (Mind you, I’m drunk on a Friday night at 3 AM, so just posting this before I forget to do it tomorrow).
One of your arguments (not all!) is built on an opposing side abusing the cultural impact of CRT/DEI. However, that can be applied as a premise to a slew of other political efforts with the same mechanics where the singling out of a group can be twisted into discrimination of an adjacent group:
- Americans with Disabilities Act
- Permanent Fund Dividend (PFD) for Alaskans
- Shelters and Services Program for Immigrants
- Any policies surrounding Native Americans
In all the above programs, one could make the case that there are adjacent groups that do not, but maybe should, receive those benefits. CRT/DEI just is an easier target to gather people around. It doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it’s just the most prominent and easily targetable policy.
All that doesn’t invalidate CRT/DEI or any of the other policies, and even with political opposition one could still argue for their benefit. So, my point is this: Bad actors abusing and misrepresenting a program that focuses on specific groups is not an argument against that policy. If it didn’t exist, they’d latch on to something else. So you’re letting a policy be ruined, not based on its merits, but on how others can twist a narrative around it.
Again, you have made other points that I’m not addressing at all in this argument. I’ll let others argue against those.
CRT and DEI are misrepresented by both the left and right. They make more sense when you look at them without the point of view of 14 year old Redditors or 400 year old dinosaurs.
It’s actually a bit ironic, because CRT is viewed by many White Americans as a theory which demonizes them; but CRT also defines how racism has harmed poor white people in the past and continues to do so today.
CRT defines the biggest winners of Racism in America as being wealthy white folks. According to CRT, Racism as we know it today, was created as a means to take advantage of poor whites. Rich plantation owners recognized slavery caused great economic harm to poorer whites who did not own slaves. So a solution to stop revolt was to create this system of Race so that poor whites would remain divided from black slaves, and not work together to retaliate.
CRT also claims that this is still occuring today. Racism continues to divide poor white people from poor people of color so that they don’t work together to fight against Injustice.
This is a great question to ask in a .ml community as I think they will be able to contextualize this a bit better for you, and I would be interested in what they say too. Cause I agree, I think identity politics (which I think is what you’re getting at here) is used especially by the ruling class as a way to look nominally progressive (or anti-progressive) and make people feel like they have a real choice in politics, but is ultimately damaging both to its own goals and to the overall political consciousness, in the ways you noted, by divorcing them from the material realities that create and perpetuate these divisions for all people in society. I think that in either direction, they are pushed as a means to distract from the root causes of those issues (which is all the better for a ruling class that benefits from this social order), which if addressed would be a much more equitable way of dealing with them and far more difficult for criticism to take hold.
I think people would see that we have far more in common than not if we weren’t constantly pitted against each other to compete for resources that are only made scarce for the sake of profit and austerity.
CRT though, in actuality, is precisely what you are talking about. It is a school of thought that analyzes racial inequalities in the context of history and critiqueing the ways that they are perpetuated in our society. It became a buzzword because conservative media made it into one totally divorced from its original context.
Prof Wolff just released a great video about this yesterday, although it’s more about debunking the myth of a meritocracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILljYRz_G-I
So like that environmental justice database musk just shut down, that analyzes things like pollution, asthma and other health impacts, death rates, etc? So environmental cleanup efforts can focus on those who are most affected? Apparent it’s crt or DEI or woke or something since those most affected tend to be disproportionately non-white. It can’t be the “merit” of being most impacted by pollution
The facts are that black Americans are worse off than other groups in almost every way we can measure. There are two competing theories to explain this.
1-the systems of our society are biased against black people. That’s Systemic-Racism. 2-black people are inferior to everyone else. That’s racism, original recipe.
How are these systems biased against black people? That’s what the field of CRT seeks to answer.
- A culture was developed during a period of racism that discouraged activities beneficial a thriving community, because they were denied in a racist era. That culture hasn’t adapted to a less racist era.
What makes me really curious is, is it really the skin-tone that is the significant variable, or is it a very closely related confounding variable?
It seems so very weird to me that the tone of your skin can have such a significant impact.
Like the comment you’re replying to said, it kind of has to go back to either one race is generically inferior, or one race is disadvantaged for other reasons. Any other confounding variables, like income level, go directly back to the same point: If black people have less money, is that because there’s something inherent in them that makes them less capable of making money, or have they been disadvantaged by a system that prevents them from making money?
Poverty and opportunity are how we choose elevate people to create equity.
The diversity is how we can objectively measure outcomes - whether people in power are actually applying the above principles.
Good on OP for seeking challenges to their existing view points and being open to changing them upon compelling enough thoughts. In a genuine way no less.
Yeah I was prepared for another change my mind post where the OP obviously is never gonna change their mind. Glad I was wrong.
