Sorry if the premise is inflammatory, but I’ve been stymied by this for a while. How did we go from something like 1940s era collectivism or 1960s era leftism to the current bizarro political machine that seems to have hypnotized a large portion (if not majority) of the country? I get it - not everything is bad now, and not everything was good then. FDR’s internment camps, etc.
That said - our country seems to be at a low point in intellectualism and accountability. The DHHS head is an antivaxxer, the deputy chief of the DOJ is a far-right podcast nutball, etc. Their supporters seem to have no nuance to their opinion beyond “well, Trump said he’d fix the economy and I don’t like woke.”
Have people always been this unserious and unquestioning, or are we watching the public’s sanity unravel in real time? Or am I just imagining some idealistic version of the past that never existed, where politicians acted in good faith and people cared about the social order?
Are we more stupid than we used to be? Yeah. But I’d use the word ignorant instead. It’s a bit more accurate. Ignorance is chosen, and that’s what our current epidemic of stupidity is. Chosen.
There have always been a lot of ignorant people, but now, with social media, those people have platforms to infect others with their ignorance. Also, in my own lifetime, I’ve witnessed a shift from ignorant people still being able to set aside partisan politics to condemn obviously bad actors or decisions to 100% doubling down on partisan politics no matter how bad the person or action is.
I’ve definitely FELT this increase in willful ignorance over the course of my life living in this country. People in my own life choosing to believe things they absolutely would not have believed a couple decades ago. People not understanding super basic concepts.
I think there are other factors than just bad actors spreading ignorance on social media. I think a lot of it has to do with simple distractions. The modern world has so many. A lot of the people I know don’t even read books. Like, they simply don’t read. If I ask them what book they read last they have to concentrate because it was multiple years ago. That’s fucking crazy. Instead of picking up a book they’re watching Real Wives of Whatever. Getting involved in some wealthy person’s 1st world problems, instead of, you know, learning something.
We’re entering an age of concentrated ignorance and, unfortunately, that’s very unlikely to end anytime soon. And the stakes are higher than ever for something like that to happen because we possess greater power to decimate this planet than we used to. Through pollution or braindead child-like politicians who can wage war or launch nukes.
It takes a lot less effort to allow things to keep going the way they are than it does to turn things around and responsibly educate the masses. So we’re probably going to continue spiraling.
Things are going to get dark. Our quality of life will decline.
Lack of intelligence isn’t the issue. Take the dumbest person you know and imagine they’re trapped in a room with no visible escape path. They panic and start destroying whatever’s in the room. They damage themselves in a fit trying to escape. Now take that same scenario but put in small creature comforts and distractions. Now your dumb friend isn’t panicking or fighting to get out. He’s still trapped and his intelligence neither helped or harmed his situation. This is what’s happened over the last 100 years, and it’s accelerated to decline.
If so I wouldn’t exactly be shocked
People who seem reasonable still say there are good people on both sides. I don’t understand that at all! My hairstylist moved here from vietnam as a kid. Last week i made a comment about bezos and he actually said, “both sides…”. I thought my brain was going to pop.
They’re talking about the moderates on both sides. I can probably assume you aren’t.
Vietnamese people are very conservative people, not surprising. When I was a public speech course, we had a Viet guy speak and he was very pro war and Republican( this was pre trump(
Yes, they’ve always been here. There has always been more stupid ignorant people than educated and intelligent people.
Previously, the stupid had no platform.
The fire hose of stupid shit we are inundated with nowadays used to only trickle through in person.
Someone would say something insanely stupid to you at the bar, at the grocery store, at the barber shop etc… and all we had to do was ignore them or tell them to shut up
Thanks to social media, now they’ve teamed up and have millions of followers.
The question ought to be, How are the the educated and intelligent going to rise above it?
Democracy might be the problem. You could put a threshold to vote in place, something to test that you know all the views from all the parties and the relevant topics. It’s a slippery slope though, because once you enable restrictions on voting, it’s hard to disable it again. If you accidentally get a Trump in power, he might just as easily restrict voting back to cis, white males only.
Democracy isn’t the problem; it’s the money in politics, which is an intended effect of capitalism.
Capitalism is the problem. Capitalism by its very natire is a system of economic distribution where you have an owner class who control a working class via wages, where the working class will never be paid what they are worth due to the profit motive that the owner class has when it comes to the profit of their business. Shareholder capitalism makes this even worse, as the profit year-over-year must ALWAYS go up, as that is how stock price increases. It is to the point where shareholders sue companies not for losing money, but for making less money than they did the year prior, and they win.
Imagine an alternative where you could have democracy in your workplace (worker-owned coops). You would be able to hire and fire your boss with a vote. You will be able to determine the direction of the business, also with a vote. This could be the reality if we just forced all corporations to be worker-owned coops.
This, combined with a hard wealth cap and a UBI, will prevent any one person (or small group of people) from gaining enough power to buy a government, and the addition of democracy in business will also make business interests harder to corrupt as well.
I was wondering if a top age restriction could be good though. People use to not live so damn long that they could fuck over the future generation.
Like shouldn’t people who will actually be alive to see the changes they are making make the decisions? Why are we letting people vote who are on their death bed, probably base their decisions on stuff from 50 years ago, and don’t really care about what the people who will actually live that reality will experience?
Not sure what the cutoff should be. But if 17 year olds aren’t old enough to vote, maybe 60+ year olds aren’t young enough to vote?
Maybe, just maybe, it shouldn’t be an age but a knowledge requirement. Some 10 year olds know that there are (were?) e.g. 3 branches of government, while I kid you not there are some 20+ year olds that are not aware of that plain and simple fact fact. On average, older people tend to be a little bit more knowledgeable than young, if only due to having had more time to figure stuff out, although otoh also society does change out from under them - e.g. which is more trustworthy, something seen on the TV “news”, or something shared on TikTok?
It seems more like an attitude of responsibility to me than an age or anything else. Perhaps make college degree a requirement - while keeping the GI bill offering college funding to people who successfully serve (without being dishonorably discharged) in the military. Or just a test of how government “works”.
Or rather, used to work. We aren’t coming back from this, methinks.
Yeah all good points honestly.
I was thinking changing something age related would be more hard to argue with, but any “test” we give people could feel unfair. Like think about how many languages it would have to be translated to, and what if you accidentally entered the wrong answer?
I kind of love the idea but it’s just hard to imagine the problems at scale.
Maybe we should go after the electoral college instead since ultimately they make the decisions??
Omg, you might not have been paying attention lately, but I 100% guarantee that it will be solely in English. Assuming we are allowed to vote again, which tbf we probably will, it’s just that the options will be preselected for us. As it has pretty much always been, but moar so now.
Damn I didn’t see that news 😭 I’ve been traveling the last week and honestly trying to ignore the news a bit. Not sure how to productively consume it without just feeling upset!
I hear that. Fwiw, a lot has been broken for a very long time - not merely weeks or months or even years but rather decades, so this is more of a reckoning that is catching up to us than it is a total surprise.
Similar to Brexit I would imagine, and many other similar trends around the globe, with similar causes and effects. People got complacent, the wealthy ignored the plight of the poor, who reacted out of desperation, and now… we’ll see.
The citizenship test is only in English, so anyone able to vote will be able to understand English.
Ask yourself what you think your country would look like if the Internet was hyper fixated on every single bad example anyone could find within your borders.
I blame the Left becoming TOO tolerant of all beliefs and allowing this direct to flourish. We really need to acknowledge that some ideas are too far out of mainstream to not be ridiculed into oblivion.
The left has undeniably alienated some of their group (my mum was alienated by trans rights, I was alienated by the DNC, Elon was allegedly alienated by Biden’s EV push ignoring Tesla), but I think the bigger problem is the left doesn’t fight for things people care about.
The right are the only ones in the news cycle (look at how many articles we have about Trump, even when he wasn’t president) which, to anyone who doesn’t treat politics like sports teams, makes you obviously see a thing or true that you support Republicans on. This imo is the critical flaw of the left; I now have no reason to be excited about their platform, and I’m completely numb to anything they say negatively about Trump.
my mum was alienated by trans rights
How in the world does us trying to exist and not be harassed alienate anyone?
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She’s not even anti-trans, but she’s “tired of hearing about it” and all the “pandering the left does”
🙄
Your mom sounds like kind of an asshole. She was alienated from liberalism because she was tired of hearing about a minority being targeted by a fascist party for existing?
That’s some asshole behavior.
That’s like the most transphobic thing your mother can say, “I’m tired of trans people,” quit your bs, we know your conservative , there’s a reason why your mom is getting that reaction, because shes hateful
I now have no reason to be excited about their platform
I’m excited about the part where they AREN’T FUCKING FASCISTS.
I’m completely numb to anything they say negatively about Trump.
Then Trump has beaten you through attrition, which was his goal.
Lol @ thinking Elon Musk was ever ‘left’ he was never even left of center.
Compared to outside of the US, this is true, but within the US he was pretty leftist. He publicly supported UBI, pushed for renewables, donated to the Obama and Hillary campaign, etc. Now he’s anti-trans, pro-Trump x1000, but there used to be a time he cared.
And this is why the Left can’t win.
It’s too obsessed with purity and infighting to focus on the true enemy.
The fascists, on the other hand, focus on the true enemy, then focus on purity and infighting!
Most leftists are unarmed finger waggling sign-holders.
We spent the last thirty years making gun control a priority, making anywhere near a blue state or democrat controlled city impossible to buy a gun, making democrat/Leftist protests just impotent and likely helped with police training rather than change policies or influencepoliticians tonl protect LGBTQ.
Meanwhile Bubba and his redneck Republican states allowed him to have his ergonimic advanced arsenals delivered to his front door from online purchases at cheaper prices.
And if you, whoever you are casually scrolling by this random nested comment, as a Leftist who wants to rebuke me, prove it by posting a pic of your gun. That’s right, you don’t have one and can’t protect our trans folk if they needed our help, you think fascist cops would do that. GTFO of here.
Explain to me how a gun would help you when police or government agents or even just a rowdy local militia come knocking on your door, I’m genuinely interested in hearing how you think that will play out.
It completely changes how they act with you. It goes from them fearlessly stomping you, to respectfully cautious because they don’t want to die. It’s almost as if people only respond to threats of violence. Otherwise why the fuck do we bother building nukes? If Ukraine never gave up their nukes, Russians would have never invaded. If Vietnamese farmers didn’t fight with AKs, that entire region would look different. Go read a fucking history book. Quit being a pacifist pussy
to respectfully cautious
Lmao to quote you, GTFO out here with that
Please elaborate your nonsense comment
I think you better go ask someone on your opposing political spectrum if they’d leave you alone if they found out you had a gun when knocking on your door to arrest or harm you.
Ergonomic is bad now? Should I throw out my ergonomic keyboard? My keyboard might assault someone!
You should work on reading comprehension and I need to work on writing better. If Bubba can shoot you from his diabetic mobility scooter, then ergonomic is good. Don’t know where the fuck you took it as a bad thing
I’m reliably accurate to about 800 yards and I really don’t like fascist assholes.
It’s also not hard to buy a gun, that’s just a bunch of baloney, even here in CA. Yes there are carry restrictions, and yes it’s more involved than other states, but buying one is not as difficult as people make it out to be.
That thing looks cool af and Magpul furniture looks decent, but know that MAGA not only own disproportionately way more guns than you, they also aren’t worried about joining militias and regularly train with their morbidly obese friends, meanwhile you are trying to solo these inbred fucks and will 100% die to them if they start shit.
It’s not a Magpul, I forget the brand but it’s super comfy.
My small town is very heavily armed, but is also way more moderate (purple) than anything. Sure we have our far right wingnuts, but they tend to be on the lower end of the intelligence spectrum in these parts. They tried forming a militia a while back, and most everyone in town just laughed at them. A lot of of us enjoy going shooting regularly (when it’s not freezing out), and I’m certainly not trying to take on the gravy seals by myself lol. My good buddies and I have contingency plans in place in case shit goes sideways in the worst of ways.
It’s not a Magpul, I forget the brand but it’s super comfy.
What? Your barrel shroud is Magpul, your pistol grip is Magpul, your bipod is Magpul, your p-mag might be Magpul, and your stock looks like a Magpul too. Your lower looks like Aero and the upper looks like cheap off-brand. Your Vortex optic likely costs more than your entire gun for no reason i can imagine for such a low caliber, and is too high a magnification for 5.56/.223 unless you use +p+ ammo
Did you just purchase this shit and not know what the fuck you own? Please don’t be a stereotype moron Lefty who bought a gun and knows nothing about it and never trains with it (hint, you definitely are).
Damn dude, chill out. You’re assumptions are out of this world and it’s laughable.
I can tell you’re blowing smoke out of your ass because anyone with eyes and rudimentary gun knowledge would be able to tell pretty quickly this is an ar-10, not 15. This was built for me by a buddy, the optic and stock I purchased after the fact. Yes the optic is overkill for this particular rifle, and will likely get transferred to my 30-06. The image is from the shop where we signed the transfer paperwork.
You’re showing your colors as a stereotypical arrogant keyboard warrior, who takes their assumptions and runs a marathon with them, parading around like a pathetic asshat to make yourself feel better. Grow up and be better.
those people you call “fascists” are too selfish to be fascists. Trump and his minions don’t care about their nation or the well being of its state and people.
Fascists are always selfish. The claims about caring about the nation or anything else are always a front. They are the marketing, not the product. The product is always self-enrichment, which is exactly the goal of the Trump regime. They are archetypal fascists.
People are down voting you, but I’m hyper left and also believe this. A big one for me is overly sensitive consideration for things that aren’t truly problematic, such as the use of “LatinX.”
A massive majority of us Latinos do not give a shit about this or think its idiotic. A white person definitely decided that the linguistic gendering inherent to Spanish was sexist.
Idk I just think the far reich feel unfettered now. They don’t fear anything so it may seem that everybody is shitty but they’re just louder than they were.
Dude get off lemmy. Go outside, talk to your neighbors.
Nothings changed, we’re still a giant group of humans. Only your perception has changed.
We’ve never elected a felon rapist who attempted to overthrow our government before.
So clearly something has changed.
We still haven’t. He’s not a felon, and he’s not a rapist. You should really actually read the articles instead of the headlines.
Funnily enough, there’s been rapists in office before, like Bill Clinton, a democrat.
Yes, Trump was convicted of multiple felony charges, making him a convicted felon.
He recieved a conditional discharge for his sentence, meaning he didn’t spend time in jail, but he is 100% a convicted felon.
You also ignored the part where he’s a treasonous traitor to his country, that tried to overthrow a democratically elected government.
You’re not a moderate, you’re just blind to how idiotic and treasonous the American right wing is.
Actually he was never convicted in a court of law. Civil court does not have the same requirements.
Completely and utterly wrong.
He was convicted by a jury in New York court of Falsifying Business Records, a felony crime, that carries up to four years in prison as potential punishment.
Maybe try googling what you think you know before posting next time. Evidently, whatever method you use to inform yourself of things has led you to be confident of multiple blatant falsehoods.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
– George Carlin over 30 years ago
"The best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
– (source unknown, but sometimes mis-attributed to Churchill)
As much as I love these quotes, I think it’s important to qualify them:
Everyone is born stupid, but people can be educated. If we want an educated populace, we must put in the work to create functional systems of education, and celebrate intelligence as a society. It’ll be hard work, and there are plenty of people out there who would prefer to see the masses remain stupid.
“The way Americans regard sports heroes versus intellectuals speaks volumes” An article by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Isaac Asimov
The quote of Asimov is on point. As a non-American, I remember rewatching “Friends” after Trump came into office and suddenly noticed this subliminal anti-intellectualism even in this rather progressive left leaning TV show: Ross is often ridiculed as boring or arrogant when he talks about science or just trying to be factual, whereas the stupidity of Joey and the superstition and denial of reality of phoebe are glorified as funny and quirky and often shown as equal or even superior to Ross’ intellectualism.
Not to be a jerk, but I’d argue everyone is born ignorant due to an inherent lack of knowledge. Ignorance can be rectified through education. I would also argue that everyone is born with varying levels of intelligence and ability; so not everyone is stupid but there are those who are, unfortunately. Stupid and ignorant mean very different things, even though they get colloquially misused often.
You’re not being a jerk, you’re being pedantic.
Ignorant is absolutely the better word, and I should have used it.
I think, however, that people are far more capable of gaining intelligence than we give them credit for. I don’t believe that IQ is assigned at birth, and it’s been shown that the entire idea of IQ testing is extremely flawed.
There are people born with learning disabilities, of course, but that’s a whole other conversation.
Yes. Am Americans, can confirm.
Yes and forgetful as well. Utterly unable to learn from history since the history they are taught is whitewashed.
They were pretty stupid back in the 90s and got worst over time. Obviously this is a generalization as there are some non-stupids too but judging by the election results they seem to be the minority.
Before micro plastics and covid, we had hook worms in the south and leaded gasoline everywhere.
America has been under the threat of foreign influence since Day 1 and right now, it looks like we are temporarily under attack by agents of Eastern Europe and South Africa. Literally every noteworthy poll of the last 20 years will show that the majority of Americans are against this and it’s important to remember this harm is coming from outside.
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