I didnt have much to begin with only lost about 12k, I have nothing anyway. My mother lost roughly 100k in her retirement fund from all this crashing. My grandmother even more. How much have you lost in Trump’s Tantrum Tariffs game?
Basically zilch since I have so little in retirement savings. I don’t make enough to really start saving. I have maybe like $22K saved over the last 10 years.
Technically none, as nothing has realised yet. :P
Down 14% since the start of March
I haven’t sold, so none. I’m going to buy a bit more. Even if it goes down I can still get dividends and borrow against it rather than selling if i need
$155k, and it could have been worse.
Nothing and neither did you. Numbers on a screen aren’t anything more than a suggestion until it’s cash in your hand.
You either lost money, or you lost time. If you are implying that you lost nothing because you didn’t cash out and therefore can wait for a rebound, then you are going to lose the time you have to wait for the rebound. In economics that is also called an opportunity cost. You have now lost the opportunity to invest that money into something profitable because you have now tied it up in something that is unprofitable. You still lost. You are just too dumb to realize it with this mentality.
Worst case is when people with this mentality ride a stock to the bottom insisting it will just take more time to come back, and it doesn’t. Then forcing the person to lose both the money and the time.
My mother will factually never be able to retire now. Thats real. Thats something, not nothing. We joke how its a rich people vibe machine but they’ve tied our retirements and employments to this thing. It means something. Believe me I wish it didnt. It hardly did for me I didnt have anything but I am not the sole proprietor of society now am I? Its a group project. A group effort to survive and thrive.
If not having it doesn’t lose you anything can I have yours?
You’re focusing on loss of money while ignoring loss of value. It doesn’t have to be currency to have value, and the value of something falling has an impact on your expectation of realizing that value later.
Your position works better with people treating the expectation of profit as value, and decrying unmet profit goals as a loss.
Man’s unlocked the secret code to infinite money.
If I pay for everything with a debit card it doesn’t count as real money because it’s just a number on a screen and therefore doesn’t exist.
The special thing is, you don’t have to believe in money at all to be able to use it. As long as other people believe in it, and you notice that, you can also use money. It doesn’t matter what you believe, as long as other people believe it has value.
But if you believe that other people believe something has value, then you also believe it has value. You wouldn’t accept money for something if you believed it had no value.
the number is how much cash you could get in your hand right now if you wanted to and it is absolutely more than just a suggestion; it’s real buyers buying right now at that price.
Yep.
Real money that someone (other than you) now has.
Found the apologist!
About a year’s salary.
Since I’m not american, nothing that I know of
Oh, the rest of the world is definitely feeling the ripples.
I have only a couple investments still open, pulled nearly everything the day after election. Still down ~4,500
I’ve never even owned stocks.
You have no retirement fund at all? What the fack?
Some of us live paycheck to paycheck, Karen.
Have you tried not?
Oh sure, I’ll just wave my magic wand and make it so that after I pay all my bills I have thousands of dollars left over to invest!
We all have bills, though. How much do you spend on fast food or other luxuries? What is your monthly income and how much are the hard bills (like utilities)? If you don’t mind sharing since we’re all anonymous on here anyway, maybe we can figure this out.
Oh my god.
I’ve considered all of these things. I know my finances better than you do. I live with family and don’t even have to pay rent and I still don’t make enough to invest in your magic money market. I don’t need help from stockbros. You’re doing the financial equivalent of “you’re disabled? have you tried exercising and smiling more?” Maybe consider that you don’t know everything.
I never said that I know everything and wasn’t even thinking about the market at all; I was just concerned about a paycheck-to-paycheck life, especially if you happened to be living alone, but never mind.
My personal history of owning individual stocks has been very disappointing. If you ever decide you want to invest in the equity market, I recommend exchange traded funds (ETFs) that follow an index and have a really low expense ratio. My favorite exchange traded funds are VT, VTI, VTV, VXUS, BND, and BNDX. VBR may be a good one if you ever want exposure to smaller companies.
Mutual funds are another option, similar to ETFs.
Be very careful with mutual funds in this climate. Most are heavily weighted towards the Mag7 which include some of the most massively overinflated stocks.
That’s why I like the “value” themed ones, like VTV. Those follow indices with companies having a somewhat reasonable price to earnings ratio.
If you ever decide you want to invest in the equity market
If I wanted to play with pretend money, Monopoly is right there.
Playing monopoly is definitely a viable option if it makes you happy. The best investments in life are those that benefit mental and/or physical health.
I’m down $7k, so far.
I should have bailed early, but the tax hit would have been just as bad.In what world is a tax hit just as bad? If you’re having to pay taxes, you made money.
If you think you should have bailed then you shouldn’t be investing
i am just starting on a fresh 401k account, i guess i got lucky, but people with decades worth of contributions must be swearing bullets
I’m swearing more than just bullets.
I lost everything long before this, sadly. Didn’t even have money to start rebuilding before the tariffs nonsense.
It all feels insurmountable.
The number of times I cry because it took me until I was nearly forty to own a bed of my own, and to just be a few years past forty and back down to basically nothing and sleeping on a 15+ year old mattress that isn’t even mine that hurts my back every night is too damn high.
I never had much, all told it was all worth maybe $2000, but it’s all gone now. It all feels so petty but it was mine, the few things I had were mine, and I took good care of them. It feels like a joke that it could have all been replaced for so cheap yet I have had no options because of my cancer.
You’re supposed to rotate mattresses every 3-to-6 months to even out their wear. Alternatively, you can just move the pillow to the other side to not deal with rotation. But given the age of that mattress, it’d almost certainly be healthier to sleep on your back on the floor. Can you get an air mattress? Even that’d be better than nothing.
I lost zero because the number going down doesn’t equal the value going down. You only lose if you panic sell.
This is the perfect mantra for getting scammed. It’ll always go back up, guaranteed! Just keep putting money in, you only lose if you take money out! Yes, it has worked so far, but past performance does not guarantee future results.
You’ve got two choices. 1 - continue to invest using DCA even thought the market is down.
2 - sell, move your money to a CMA or something, likely at a loss for some of it, and pay your capital gains.
Because the option you are engaging in FUD over is that the market does not come back up. My friend, if everything goes to shit in that scenario and you don’t have a pile of cash under your mattress, you’re just as fucked as everyone else. There will be a run on the banks and there will be no money for anyone. So either put stacks of $20s in the freezer or keep investing.
I’m not arguing the market never comes back up, but there have been prolonged periods of time where markets do not recover to previous highs. After the great depression, the US stock market took about 30 years to recover to its previous high and continue growing (https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-data). Similarly, it took Japan’s stock market 30 years to recover to its previous high (https://www.macrotrends.net/2593/nikkei-225-index-historical-chart-data) and it’s already on its way down.
The stock market does not represent economic reality. There are too many tricks with leverage in many forms, including derivatives, which distort the true value. Too much importance is placed on this glorified casino and for the past few decades, the go-to solution has been to pump money into the system at any sign of trouble. It’s not sustainable to keep feeding this beast for the sake of the ultrawealthy who own the vast majority of it.
A stock market crash does not necessarily mean a run on the banks. There was a run on the banks after the stock market crash of 1929 because banks were over-leveraged with loans used to pump the stock market. That same mistake is being made now, but the difference this time is the government guaranteeing deposits. There are other issues where the government may not be able to fulfill those guarantees, but at that point, is this fragile system worth keeping up? We can’t keep it up forever.
It’s not FUD to point out that infinite growth is not sustainable. On the flipside, the permanent optimism of claiming the line will always go up in the end and not taking into account the amount of time it can take for that to happen is irrational. The key as always is to diversify, but the makeup of that diversification can vary greatly and the stability of the stock market is not guaranteed.
You’re arguing both sides of the coin. Pick one. It also doesn’t really change what I said. You either stay in and hope, or get out and pay the tax man. Your call.
For something like a 401k, changing your allocations has no tax events. For the rest, most of your holdings will be long term and will qualify for a mere 15% or lower tax rate: https://www.bankrate.com/investing/long-term-capital-gains-tax/#what-is-the-long-term-capital-gains-tax-rate
So you want to stay in? Got it.
I don’t know how you got that impression but perhaps you’re just interpreting my comments through green-tinted permabull lenses.
Well… you haven’t watched the stock market or any money market enough then.
I’ve definitely seen the endless liquidity and leverage pumped into the system, I just don’t think it’s sustainable.
You still lose time, and are now stuck in an unprofitable investment rather than a profitable one. So you are also losing all the value you would have gained had we stayed the course instead of doing this dumb shit. Thats called opportunity cost.
7% average annual growth includes dozens of market crashes and two world wars. This is not new, unique or surprising situation in any shape or form. I bet it wont take even a year untill we’re back at all time high.
You’re not wrong but they are also right. You’ve lost nothing until you’ve pulled out of the market. And unless you need that money within the next 18 months, that would be a colossally dumb thing to do. Even then I would probably advise against it.
Look up the stock market around March 2020. Huge dip then rebound to pretty much the same trajectory. As long as you left your stuff to sit, you’re still doing fine. There’s no reason to think the massive rebound would have still occurred without the dip.
I fortuitously moved all my VTI into VTV a couple weeks ago to divest myself of TSLA, and over the past two days have been actively keeping the balance of my 60/40 equities/bonds portfolio by selling a little bit of BND and BNDX to get some more VTV as it sunk. Didn’t need to modify the VXUS portion.
Sure was nice to have those bond portions to assuage the decline.
Trying to beat the market is a waste of time. You’re not stuck in an unprofitable investment unless you’re trying to get rich quick. You invest based on your strategy and value of said investment. It isn’t just because the number goes up and down. Time in the market wins every time. Read the founder of Vanguard’s book on investing.
Ordinarily, yes. But in this case, we’re dealing with a type of risk we don’t usually have to worry about: sovereign risk. It is entirely possible that Trump could be fucking up the country in ways that the market will never come back from because companies just get entirely destroyed or nationalized or who knows what.
In that sort of case, changing your investments – not timing the market, but responding to the potentially permanent difference in circumstances – can make sense.
This dip isn’t even because of some fundamental issues on the market. It’s just the reaction of scared individuals to what a single person says. When that same person the next month says something else the opposite can happen.
Yep. I’m amazed at how many Lemmy people don’t realize this.
Yeah, this thread is very surprising
Right!? I mean, Lemmy on the average is wealthier and smarter than the average person, but what is going on in this thread?! lmao
Well… You only lose if the value doesn’t go up. A small but very important difference.
Aren’t the stock markets supposed to recover from a crisis like this, as they always did in the past?
Crisis would be something that happens despite, not due to, government policy.
How would it recover if the person responsible for fixing it is delighted at the damage he caused?
If it doesn’t everyone will have more to worry about than the worth of their 401k.
This is always how I’ve framed it. Either it will recover or we’re dealing with societal collapse–level problems. In the former, great, wait it out. In the latter, good luck no matter how much you had.
Anyone acting like this current clusterfuck is permanent or anything but a random stupid whim hasn’t been following what this shitgibbon does. He will repeal the tariffs at some point, call it a win, and the market will rally in response. Then it’s on to the next abomination of “policy”. Just another episode in the nonstop trash reality show that is a Trump presidency.
Why do you assume the market will rally when they’re removed? The market will remain worried about the possibility of more. And the market has to deal with the already existing consequences of purchasing of usa goods down worldwide. Habits broken.
Literally every single time this far it has but the people who don’t even invest are saying this time might be different.
My entire account is down 22% so it hurts a lot.
Im also not sure if I should sell. Under normal circumstances, I wouldnt. But now we are seeing another 4 years of Trump, and his strategy is about intentionally causing a depression. Its not normal days on the stock market, thats for sure.
Who can stop him?
I’m planning to just keep buying more as he causes further declines, to my ability to do so that is.
Certainly don’t sell now. You’ll be seeing the combined pressure of the moneyed on Trump, and he’s nothing if not chaotic anyway. “Strategy” is just what he calls his whim of the moment. This may not be the end of the dip yet, but the whole tariff scheme will fall apart and stocks will rally. You could, without touching anything right now, take a look at the stocks that your fund is made of, and see if you want to make changes for ethical or practical reasons, so you’re ready to do so on the upswing. But let the big money investors throw their weight around first.
