Both the president and his reelection campaign are going after his coup-attempting predecessor even before the first GOP primary ballots are cast.
A full year out from the 2024 presidential election and nearly two months before Republicans cast their first primary ballots, President Joe Biden and his campaign are assuming that Donald Trump will be his opponent and have already started reminding voters why they threw him out of office in the first place.
Biden personally has stepped up criticism of his coup-attempting predecessor and is framing the likely rematch as one that will determine the survival of American democracy.
“The same man who said we should terminate the rules and regulations and articles of the Constitution — these are things he said — is now running on a plan to end democracy as we know it,” he said last week at a fundraiser in Chicago.
“This next election is different. It’s more important. There’s more at stake. And we all know why: Because our very democracy is at stake,” he told a San Francisco audience on Wednesday.
I voted for Biden because I wanted to stop fascism and world war, now Israel is doing genocide and bombing its neighbors with Biden’s tacit support.
And we must hold Biden responsible.
But are you suggesting that Trump would approach Israel any differently? The US response is deeply rooted in morally evil international interests, I don’t think any president could respond much differently without severe internal consequences to themselves. It would be the right thing to do, though it would be political suicide thanks to said evil interests.
What makes you think Biden is responsible for Israel’s actions? If my brother or my neighbour does something to harm someone and the results of this harm come to my awareness, explain without emotion, using logic, how and why should I be held responsible for the results of his actions, and where do we draw the line?
If I don’t know why something has happened and I go out and ask why, and people blame me simply for simply asking the very question, who is responsible?
Clearly, the person who looks to blame the person asking the question must have a dogma, they must have a reason, it’s very reasonable to believe they must have a stake in the question not being asked which obviously means that they could know who is responsible.
Because he gives israel bombs to kill children and women with and sends 2 aircraft carriers and a nuke sub to prevent other nations from defending the Palestinians.
Let’s not confuse freedom with purposeful proposition
I think in place of this, you mean Biden should be held accountable, but you have no intention or expectation of it actually happening. Reelection is definitely the opposite of that. And like Bush transitioning to Obama, I doubt you’ll be calling for any retroactive accountability once Biden has left office after reelection.
Then your assumptions are incorrect.
I would prefer not to re-elect Biden. I however am not in control of the Democratic Party, and so the best I can do is vote in elections leading up to the national election. When the day comes next year for a national election, it will be Biden VS. Whomever the republicans pick. Those are my two choices, whether I like it or not.
I am already politically active in demanding Biden be held accountable. I am still active in demanding Bush be held accountable for war crimes. I will still remain active in the future to ensure Biden answers for them as well.
As a law abiding citizen, I am protesting and voting. So do you suggest I commit violence instead? That is the only next step, seeing as I am not in control of who the Democrat party elects.
that sounds about what my assumptions were. A desire for accountability, yet you’ll be voting for him and he won’t be facing any sort of accountability.
I’m trying to conduct some conversation here. You haven’t responded to my inquires and fail to show any motivation beyond disparaging the US. If you’d like to actually care and be a part of the solution, I’ll be waiting over here.
The barest minimum for holding a politician accountable is not reelecting them.
You may not be from the US, so I will forgive your ignorance on how politics work here.
Long story short, whether you or I like it or not, it will most likely be Trump vs. Biden.
Here in the US, we citizens have severely limited power in suggesting who the political parties run for national elections.
What this all boils down to is that I get to choose between Trump or Biden. I could choose not to vote, but then my voice is heard even less.
I should choose to protest and demand better action by my policy makers and representatives. But I already do that, and I made that very clear to you.
So again, what do you suggest? I’m over here actively trying to cause change for the better, and all you have to say is “Haha typical, won’t do anything”. Are you just trolling?
Same energy
deleted by creator
No youre doing something, voting to reelect Biden. This whole hostage situation is a self fulfilling prophecy, we’re all allowed to vote for whoever, doesnt have to be in any political party, and the person with the most, well, approximately the most votes thanks to the electoral college, gets the elected position. But everyone assumes everyone else is gonna vote for Biden, none that ive met so far that actually like the guy, so everyone votes for him. And this trend of more and more conservative democrats vs crazier and crazier republicans that must be stopped, continues. The guy you want to hold accountable will be rewarded instead, with your help, and the two party system will be even less challenged. I say its a bandaid that needs ripping
History suggests the exact opposite.
Consider healthcare and Obamacare. What happened when people unhappy with Obamacare not going far enough didn’t vote in 2010? The US swung rightward and the far right grew in power. The only thing that happened with healthcare was the constant Republican attempts to repeal it, and they were almost successful. We almost saw regression on the issue, not improvement.
Think about this another way – if reelection is a vindication to the politics and means their voters see no need to hold them accountable, what happens if a Republican wins? They’ll see their positions as justified and be emboldened. The country will seem to favor conservatism, so Democrats will go the opposite direction and become more moderate. A Republican victory isn’t seen as Democrats needing to be more left and a Democrat victory isn’t seen as Republicans being to be more right. It’s the complete opposite.
The problem is that you’re forgetting this is a zero sum game. If you hold the Democrat accountable, you let the Republican slide. If you hold the Republican accountable, you let the Democrat slide. If you want to hold both accountable and just not vote, you’re letting the candidate at an advantage slide and holding the underdog accountable. There’s no good option. If you want to actually hold both of them accountable, you have to vote FOR the one that’s closer the direction you want to go, and then use your vote as leverage. Politicians listen a lot more to their voters than go non voters. Young people are putting real pressure on Biden because they previously voted for him.
That’s what I’m doing by threatening to withhold my vote! That’s how pressure works. We put pressure on him by making sure his campaign knows “no ceasefire, no votes”. I helped him get into the white-house and I won’t help again if he doesn’t listen.
All you blue-no-matter-who voters have absolutely zero pressure you can apply. You’re locked in. Your voice is worthless.
Please tell me how you can apply pressure without withholding your vote. Calling? They let it go to voicemail. Writing? Shredder.
democrats just have been becoming more conservative. I dont expect that trend to change anytime soon and Im no longer going to support it.
and he ignored that pressure so Im no longer voting for him.
I’m suggesting that the machine operates the same no matter who pulls its levers, for exactly the reasons you listed.
That said? I don’t think as many Democrats would be reluctant to endorse a ceasefire under Trump. That matters.
It doesn’t though. I disagree with Biden but he’s not actively trying to take away my rights. Its a lesser of two evils situation, and acting like its not is either naive or malicious.
I want ranked choice voting so it isnt always this lesser of two evils bullshit, but that’s not the reality.
If you don’t vote biden, that’s your choice, but that isn’t some brave silent protest. That’s giving up. What are you doing to change things? Right now. I voted in my local elections just recently. We lost every vote, but I did it anyways. I’ll be voting in any primaries I can, and for any election I’m able. When I’m financially able I’ll be donating to candidates who I personally support.
Unless you want a full on revolution, work around the bullshit system we have to make it better. Realistically, I don’t think there is the public will for a real revolution.
This is harsh and I mean it to be. If you don’t vote you are doing nothing. If you aren’t campaigning or helping somebody else do so, you’re doing nothing. If you are simply whining on the Internet about how both candidates are shit and you give up, then you’ve given up. Don’t pull this “enlightened” both sides are equally shit idiocy. Its simply not true.
If you honestly think that the only way to change is revolution, then plan one. Nobody wants to hear you shout to the void that you won’t be participating in the bare minimum of directing a democracy/republic.
You’re fine with Biden supporting a genocide in Gaza as long as it doesn’t personally effect you, is that right?
This is an internet comment section. We’re all shouting to the void, nothing anyone says here matters. This is all just for fun.
I never said I supported the shit in Gaza. I don’t. I want a ceasefire. I want a free and independent Palestine. What, realistically, do you want me to do to make that happen? Voting for Trump won’t help. Voting third party won’t help. Not voting won’t help. Enlighten me.
Or is this more “if you haven’t given up too you must be complicit” bullshit? What have you done? I’ll continue to do what I can to make a positive change, despite the lack of power I personally have. I’d encourage you to do the same, to pick up whatever hypothetical twig you have laying around and swing it, rather than putting down others for doing what they can, in the fucked up situation we are in. Citizens have political power as a collective, not individuals, and if you back out of that collective you’re just giving up what power you do have.
If you vote for Biden you are voting for genocide. Fact.
Our votes are our only leverage over Biden. If the Biden team cares at all about winning reelection then Biden will reconsider his unlimited support for Israel, and if he does I will 100% vote for him. Until then? No ceasefire, no votes.
Also I haven’t given up? Hell, I’m still voting downticket for Democrats! But I will not vote for genocide. That’s my red line. I can not compromise myself that far, I’d literally rather die (and because I’m a trans commie, Trump might actually fucking kill me so yeah)
Trump will be just as bad, if not worse. He regularly praises dictators for their human rights abuses and wants to reimplement a travel ban from many middle eastern countries, and has stated he doesn’t want any refugees to come from those areas, I believe specifically including Gaza.
I understand the decision you’ve made, but I disagree. I still feel that biden v trump means I vote biden, because trump is both worse for the US, and worse for the people suffering in Palestine. I hope Biden changes his stance and actually calls for a ceasefire, and I will continue to let my representatives know this.
You do what you gotta do, but I’ll never support Trump, through direct action, or inaction.
Trump will also make Democrats think twice about their unlimited support for Israel, so it’s actually a mixed bag.
At the very least libs like Bernie would have the courage to endorse a ceasefire under Trump, even if they won’t under Biden.
I’m a little more torn over this than others… On one hand, this is the appropriate messaging to force Democrats to actually represent the interests of their electorate, the thing they’re specifically elected to do. The phone lines of these politicians should be going off 24 hours a day with callers telling them they will never even consider voting for them again unless they show an appropriate level of change, remorse, and action to stop this. Biden should be receiving that 10x over. Additionally, there are groups of people I will never criticize for refusing to vote - should the white lefty criticize the Muslim for refusing to vote for a leader that does not value the lives of Muslims? Should they criticize the Jew for refusing to vote for a leader who commits genocide in their name?
…and on the other hand, as a queer person who follows politics, I still feel any public refusal to vote Biden on my part must be a bluff. There’s too much at stake for me to justify going through with it privately… there’s my trans life, yes, but then there’s also the lives of my trans and generally queer friends, the freedoms of the women in my life, the lives and freedoms of those groups on the national scale, the ability for anyone to vote at all down the line - privately refusing to vote blue for the presidency would not feel like solidarity (partly because it would make the situation I’m refusing to vote over worse, and also potentially make life in the US for Jews and Muslims worse, as Republicans and Trump specifically have enacted things like explicit travel bans before). It would not feel like praxis to virtue signal my refusal to be complicit in one genocide only to be complicit in the all-to-possible ellimination of democracy at home and a subsequent net increase in genocide and funding for it around the world. Voting for Genocide Joe is not cool or satisfying or even right - it’s just the least bad… and honestly for what its worth, the least bad has never looked worse in my life.
Thanks for seriously engaging with my comment, I don’t think anyone else bothered.
And yeah, I’m trans in a red state. If Trump gets elected it could get really bad for me really fast. I really do believe Biden can be pressured on this issue, though, and I’m willing to put my life and safety on the line to do it.
It’s more than just a trolley problem, because my choice to not pull the lever is influencing the trolley’s behavior. The trolley can change it’s mind in this case.
What’s your hexbear username?
Why would I bother?
Best to go work on ranked choice voting, campaign finance reform etc.
Kill Citizens United. Kill the 2 party system.
Yup. I agree, but don’t word it so nicely.
So exactly one issue is the breaking point for you? All the fascism and Nazism that Trump spouts is tolerable?
Genocide is the breaking point for me. I voted for Biden to stop fascism and I got a genocide. I will not vote for genocide again.
Why aren’t you mad at Biden for ruining his own election chances by supporting genocide? Why attack us for opposing genocide?
This genocide has been going on for decades. If it wasn’t a breaking point in '20, why is it a breaking point now?
For fuck’s sake. Swear to fucking god, I can’t tell the difference between the tankies who are disingenuously using this incident in the ongoing genocide to push a “TRUMP NOT SO BAD” narrative, and those who, like most Americans, learned about the existence one of the biggest issues in international politics just last fucking month.
This is worse than it’s ever been in my entire life, surely you realize that?
It’s more prominent. It’s more visible. It catches the attention of those who don’t usually pay attention to international politics. But I don’t know why you weren’t concerned when they were shooting up hospitals full of wounded and shelling children with naval artillery, but are now that it’s proper flashy.
It was genocide. It has been genocide. It will likely continue to be genocide once the current operation finishes. And there’s zero chance that it will stop as long as Bibi’s government is in power.
I’d argue the scale of this is much worse than anything in the past few decades. There’s a reason they’re calling it a new Nakbah.
Nobody voted for a genocide. I certainly doubt that anyone in the USA let alone Biden would endorse genocide.
There are not a small number of people in the US that support a genocide. It was a more popular slogan a couple years ago, but there are quite a few right wingers that would say the phrase ‘six million wasn’t enough’ meaning we need a new holocaust. There are numerous groups with dozens to hundreds of members in the US that support that ideology. If you haven’t heard of the Turner Diaries, it’s a book that advocates a day of white supremacist mass murder of leftists and less ‘racially pure’ people, (referred to as the ‘day of the rope’) it has been popular for decades and is seen as a guide for neo-Nazis.
So now that Biden admin brokered a ceasefire and hostage exchange in the Palestine Israel conflict, is he still genocidal or?
That’s not a ceasefire, it’s a 5 day pause. The genocide starts back up next week.
But this is a good start! This was exactly my intent of threatening to withhold my vote and why it’s important to apply pressure to Biden - he knows he needs us to get reelected and so he’s working to make sure we have a reason to vote for him again.
Keep the pressure up until there’s a ceasefire. No ceasefire, no votes. I just want this one thing. He’s let me down over and over on so many different issues, but if he can give us this one fucking thing I will vote for him. Is that so wrong?
It doesn’t the same, that’s a fallacy spread by short-sighted people who only ever want immediate fixes for complicated problems. There’s definitely a lot of similarities in fiscal policy, but on social policy they couldn’t be further apart.
Just because neither fit your perfect ideal doesn’t mean they’re exactly the same and it doesn’t matter who you vote for.
Opposing genocide isn’t idealism! What the fuck?
I disagree with Biden on a ton of issues! I hated it when he broke the railroad strike, I hated it when he let the likes of Manchin whittle down all of his social agenda, I hated it when he let Texas put razor wire in the Rio, but I can compromise. I get it, he’s not a leftist and he’s not willing to rock the boat and he’s trying to appeal to conservative swing voters. But this is the one issue I just can’t.
This.
Here is the key historical difference between Republicans and Democrats.
Republicans vote red no matter what. Democrats vote conscientiously.
I can’t stand a Democrat having a fervent mindset that they must vote blue no matter what because they are afraid of a Republican. That is what Republicans do.
You CAN NOT stop something by becoming it.
I feel like there is this perception going around that if Trump gets back in, everything else disappears immediately. Its akin to when Obama won and a disturbingly massive group of people were like “welp, that does it. Racism is over.”
If Trump gets back in, he still has incompetent Republican legislators who have their full attention on infighting, The entire judiciary system is going to be just as split over what to do with him, but there will no longer be any ability to claim ignorance if they choose to become complicit with him. Democrat legislators and judges won’t just disappear like The Snap from Endgame. He will also be limited to 4 years in office since he already basically flushed his first 4. He can try to overthrow the 2028 election, again, but we will all be ready for it this time.
I fucking hate Trump. His tweets are super annoying. Democrats don’t vote for genocide. Period.
We can stop Trump by holding Biden accountable and kicking his sorry ass to the curb. The DNC isn’t going to do that though. He has done too good a job making it illegal for unions to strike, cozying up to Xi Jinping (actively saying that Xi Jinping is still very much a dictator and is still actively putting his effort into cozying up with him), and, oh ya, GENOCIDE.
The DNC has 352 days to choose someone, anyone, other than Biden to send into the 2024 election. As long as they aren’t on record calling for genocide, they will sail past Trump to the oval office.
If they do not listen, Democrats lose and that is 100% the DNC/Biden’s fault (the exact same as how it was the DNC/Hilary’s fault for rigging the DNC and not allowing Bernie to beat Trump the first time).
If the Democratic party decides to continue to be what it has become under the leadership of Hilary and Biden, then fuck em. Fuck the whole damn thing.
Biden literally walked the UAW picket line you fucking house plant lol
People like you existed in 2016 when they pouted and complained that Hillary Clinton was a war criminal and that if the DNC yadda yaddas her past Bernie then America deserves what Trump will bring! And then what happened?
Trump got elected, appointed hundreds of right wing judges, including 3 of the Supreme Court judges that overturned Roe v Wade, and lit a tank of gasoline of lunatics on fire who want to turn America into a real life Handmaid’s Tale.
YOU’RE JUST DOING THE SAME EXACT THING
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good. Too many people are going to get hurt in very real ways if Trump gets elected. He will do every bad thing you think Biden is doing.
Legislation has been passed setting legal precident to encarcerate a man for not working his slave assignment, but captain “every photo of me looks like it was snapped 2 seconds after they slipped the pureed peas in my mouth” took a photo op before he laid down that LAW.
But, so I’m told, he made sure they got (metaphorical) gift baskets for it.
Fuck off you simple minded boot licking plonker.
I have no interest in sharing a party with you.
You are speaking literal gibberish and deserve the kind of government you’re ignorance will empower. It just sucks that so many other people will have to suffer because of your garbage, short sighted choices.
Suuuure, buddy. Because the alternative would be SO much better. Have you forgotten the many, many times Trump explicity showed support for Netanhayu?
Have you forgotten how much Democrats hate Trump?
Under Biden, Democrats are all lining up to support Israel’s genocide in Gaza. Even Bernie refuses to endorse a ceasefire.
Under Trump that would be drastically different. I bet more than half of Democrats would have the courage to condemn Israel.
Care to explain further? Because his entire term during presidency says otherwise.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/100-times-president-trump-supported-israel/
And if you want further counterexamples, I can pull up all the times Republicans sided with Russia as they waged war on Ukraine.
Do you remember when Democrats opposed Trump moving the embassy to Jerusalem?
I’m not saying Trump wouldn’t support Israel. He absolutely would! But Democrats would react to this by becoming less supportive of Israel.
At the very least politicians like Bernie would have the courage to call for a ceasefire.
I remember when Trump became president and suddenly Republicans were strongly in support of bombing Syria but Democrat opinion stayed roughly where it was. So, basically your entire premise is flawed.
Maybe. Either way, I will not vote for genocide.
In a two-party system, not voting is a vote for the eventual winner. So you’re still voting for genocide.
But this time it’ll be with Trump, and so without calls for a ‘humanitarian pause’ (which is a call for a ceasefire in terms that save face for Bibi’s government, which has clearly signaled that it will not consider a ceasefire). Instead, rather, it’d probably be accompanied by horrendously racist rhetoric encouraging the rise in domestic Islamophobic attacks. I wouldn’t be surprised if US jets were running sorties on Palestinian hospitals if this happened under a Trump presidency.
You’re right, I should blow my brains out in a polling booth. That would be a much better vote.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
“It’ll be better under Trump!”
… I’m seriously starting to think some of these lemmy.ml and hexbear “communist” are MAGAts cosplaying Marxists.
They’re similar in that they have horrendously naive and simplistic views of the world. Mirror images.
I didn’t say it would be better, I said Democrats would have better political positions.
Do you think Bernie would refuse to endorse a ceasefire under Trump?
Yes, probably. Considering that it comes on the heels of an attack that killed a thousand Israeli civilians, and Bibi has made it clear that a ceasefire is not going to happen?
“Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable - the art of the second best.”
A failure of imagination.
You keep living in your land of imagination, then, where everything will get better once it gets worse, like some kind of pendulum. Those of us who understand that we aren’t living in a fairy-tale world will continue to actually work to stop fascism.
deleted by creator
So instead you’ll either do nothing to stop- or even worse, actively vote for the guy who thinks we aren’t doing enough to support genocide? The guy whose party is actively trying to expel Palestinians from the US? The guy who has openly promised to bring about full force fascism and end democracy?
Cool cool cool
imagine having more than 2 choices
Not how the US Constitution is written, want better choices, vote in the primaries, or push for your state to implement a Ranked Choice Vote. Otherwise you only get two choices on the second Tuesday in November, A or B.
Or, accept that constitutions can be changed, and even replaced. It’s happening in countries right now, actually. Our constitution is out of date, and inherently reflects the white supremacist Eurocentric view of its writers. It’s far past time to retire it and replace it with one that enshrines Justice for all, including environmental Justice.
I agree with you. This is a progressive ideal. The way to get there is to vote for the most progressive candidates that can actually win and deliver them the Congress and Senate multiple terms so that we cannot be held back by regressives.
See you at the polls!
What avenue is in place for replacing the constitution through the current system? As far as I am aware, there isn’t one, and it will have to be done outside of the system through direct action forcing change. In the streets, not in the ballot boxes.
“The founders also specified a process by which the Constitution may be amended, and since its ratification, the Constitution has been amended 27 times. In order to prevent arbitrary changes, the process for making amendments is quite onerous. An amendment may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.” - Whitehouse.gov
This is the way.
Amendments don’t address the inherently white supremacist nature of the constitution, but amending it would be a step in the right direction.
We can start by removing MEN from the preamble and replacing it with PEOPLE, but literally every single part of it needs adjustments to remove the settler mind rot.
skill issue
That would be nice. But we need to live our lives in reality.
It’s been shown using decades of analysis that voting for the lesser evil ALWAYS moves you to the right. We will not vote our way out of this. If Biden gets into office again, he will fulfill his purpose as the political ratchet, preventing leftward movement. Just as he has done now, with his refusal to pick postal governors who will get rid of the definitively election tampering DeJoy. Just as he’s done with his record police funding. Just as he’s done with his ceaseless support of genocide in Palestine. Just as he’s done with his action preventing rail workers from ever again having the right to strike( and don’t hit me with that, they got 4 days of sick time, that’s totally a victory, because it’s not.). Just as he’s done with his refusal to even make a statement on cop city. Just like he’s doing by directing his DOJ to suppress pro-Palestinian protestors in universities and cities.
If you want change, stop acquiescing to their system, and demand it. Change happens in the streets, not the ballot boxes. Vote for harm reduction, I will, but make no illusions about it, you are not in any way making things better, that work is done not by voting, but by acting collectively.
I quickly scanned over this after I saw the words “Decades of analysis.” [Citation needed.]
I will not be reading the rest unless I see a citation for this authoritative abstract you’ve written.
Do you have a researchgate or JSTOR account? It’s not gonna do any good to link you if you can’t read it, because in th is society academic information is locked behind paywalls unfortunately.
Forgive me if I’m not willing to accept an authoritative statement based on data without access to the data. But I’m not willing to take that leap.
The problem, as I see it, is we live in a flawed democracy and the path to change by definition lies with getting the most progressive candidates possible in office unimpeded by regressives. It’s the only reasonable way to get change. It will be slow, it will not always be exciting. But in the meantime, I have to put food on the table and manage my life, so taking to the streets is not a reasonable long term solution for me.
I’ll continue donating to progressive causes, voting, and arguing online. It’s the bandwidth I can spare.
I suspect we agree more than we disagree and our differences are a matter of degrees.
My issue with that, is change has historically happened in this country not through the ballot box, but the soap box. We didn’t vote pro union politicians into office, we literally fought and died by the hundreds against the government and companies until union rights were enshrined into law. We didn’t vote pro-civil rights politicians into office, we rioted in the streets in what was called the “Long Hot Summer”. You know? Like I said, I’ll vote for damage control, but I have no illusions that it will effect change in any of the many ways we need radical change. That will come from the bottom up, not the top down. We will force politicians to do what we will, and since we have NO methods for redressal of grievance through the system (no, someone serving their full term and possibly not getting re-elected is not redressal of grievance), we have to do so outside of the system, through direct action.
Thankfully, we’re seeing that now. People are doing the right things now, like interrupting politicians at dinners and events, and blockading imperialist corporations and preventing movement of weaponry, and sabotaging facilities to prevent their use by the state for oppressive purposes. Make their lives impossible. Make them live in fear of what will happen to them if they reject the will of the voters more than they fear what will happen if they reject the will of their donors.
That’s what wins fights, not saying, “I am gonna vote blue no matter who”, which immediately tells them they have no incentive to change because you’ll vote for them no matter what.
Ain’t that the dream
Think Trump would have had a better response?
No. Lose/lose situation no matter who wins.
But! Do you think Democrats would support Israel’s genocide if Trump was president? I doubt it.
What the fuck do you think the Dems have been doing since the 80s? Through every Republican presidency?
I think Dems opposed Trump moving the embassy to Jerusalem.
Yes, and so were the GOP before Trump. That’s not a “Well, the Dems decided to oppose the move because it was a Republican president!” moment, it’s a “The Dems are the conservative party and the GOP is the fascist party” moment.
That’s why the best move is for Democrats to control the House and Senate, and that’s why I’m voting down ticket for Democrats.
I don’t care about why Democrats oppose Trump, I just know that they will. Or do you think that Bernie Sanders would refuse to call for a ceasefire if Trump was President, like what he’s doing right now under Biden?
“This is the history of the matter. That’s literally not how it works, and you’re confusing the opposition of one policy with some idea of complete contrarianism that flies in the face of how the Democratic Party has operated, not only over the past 30 years in general, but also under Trump in particular.”
“I don’t know WHY they’ll do it, but they WILL”
Okay, buddy, have fun with that.
Opposition to one policy is more than opposition to literally nothing.
All I know is the norms went out the window under Trump. I’m willing to bet it’ll be even worse in his second term and Democrats will revolt.
Would it be any different if it was any other president? Put differently, is it Biden supporting genocide, or America?
Which, don’t get me wrong. Fuck Biden, America whoever for doing nothing about it. My question is the validity of punishing Biden, by saying I won’t vote for him, il vote for x, as if x would have done it any differently. The only benefit x has is he wasn’t in charge while happening. So being punitive vs Biden is pointless.
Agreed
Most Americans support a ceasefire, so it’s not really “America” either. It’s the ruling class.
But Biden has a lot of power all on his own. We can’t ignore that.
Don’t forget that Democrats for the most part have to listen to their voters or risk their jobs. Republicans don’t have to listen to anyone because Republican voters would literally vote for Hitler if he had an R next to his name. There’s been a slow trickle of headlines about Biden changing his tune on Israel as slow as a geriatric can go because of the immense outrage.
Biden is president of the US, not the world. He has little more ability to stop the latest flare up of that decades long conflict than does Trudeau or any other nation’s leader.
What do you expect him to do about it that he isn’t already doing?
e: more to the point, what do you think Trump would do that would have any real effect?
Stopping aid to Israel would be a start. Sanctions would be good. Getting the world community together to force Israel to stop if they don’t would be great.
Talk to Congress about that.
Biden has been working the diplomacy angle, but diplomacy is like herding cats.
The US president is not a dictator, and should not be. If you want actual progress, stop electing frauds, criminals, and children to Congress.
Israel is wholly dependent on the US to be able to act with impunity in the region.
If Biden said “no ceasefire, no warships” and threatened to pull out of the Gulf and not defend Israel you bet your ass Israel would fall in line.
Hard disagree.
If it were that easy, why hasn’t the US put this to bed over the many decades this situation has been going on in that region?
If your solution can be stated in one sentence, I promise it’s too myopic to work. The situation there is massively complex, and every easy solution has been tried at least once.
They’re talking about a ceasefire while you’re talking about longterm peace in the region. You’re not even arguing about the same thing.
Because the US supports the genocide.
The US hasn’t put this to bed because it needs Israel to maintain its global empire, so Israel is allowed to do whatever it wants as long as it serves US interests. Israel is the US’s unsinkable aircraft carrier in the middle east. Israel is a keystone of power projection and regional influence. Israel is the laboratory for surveillance tech, drone tech, boarder tech, occupation tech, and policing tech. Israel is America’s most precious and most important ally, probably in the entire world. As Biden said, if Israel didn’t exist the US would have to make it.
Biden supports the US empire so he isn’t going to cut Israel off, same as every single president before him.
But that doesn’t mean I’m wrong, and honestly, just proves that the US empire needs to be dismantled.
Fuck off, tankie
I didn’t think 13 year olds were allowed to vote.
They don’t actually want Trump behind bars.
They want to hang a possible second Trump Presidency over us like the sword of Damocles.
This way every future election is “the most important election in US history.”
This way they can always do bare minimum and still be “better” than the Republicans offering hate and authoritarianism.
No I don’t think of it as the sword of Damocles so much as, look here’s this guy that will do anything you want but will go to extreme lengths to get it done, in ways that may go against your original values, now maybe you should consider having a plan as much as you think about being results oriented
Also this way, when they lose, they can blame us for not voting harder. It’s a really good propaganda trick.
If you don’t vote for Biden and he loses, you’re in part to blame, aren’t you?
That’s like saying “if you hadn’t burned dinner, your husband wouldn’t have had a reason to beat you.”
Absolutely disgusting viewpoint.
Are you really comparing Biden winning the election to a man beating his wife?
No, I’m comparing your argument to the justifications of a wife beater.
That’s incredibly silly.
Go home Shepard your drunk
Except that elections are math. Your husband ostensibly has the ability to control himself if he chooses. If the people don’t vote for Biden and Biden exercises control over the process so that he wins anyway, that’s treason.
No, Biden is to blame for ignoring the extremely loud demands from the Dem base for a ceasefire. No ceasefire, no votes.
Also? This is why liberals will support Trump when he restarts the Muslim bans. “They let Trump win! It’ll serve them right.” 🙄
I’m pretty sure whoever loses an election can rightfully blame the people who didn’t vote for them. That’s sort of how elections work.
I will rightfully blame Biden for being a bad candidate and blame the Democratic Party for forcing Biden down our throats and making voters choose between Trump and Biden. That’s also how elections work.
Okay? But that still means that he can’t rightfully blame you for not voting for him if he loses. Despite what you said.
He can’t blame me for being unwilling to vote for genocide! He can blame himself for supporting genocide, because that’s my single issue. I disagree with Biden on so many things but this is the one thing I and many many other voters will not budge on.
I’d literally rather kill myself than vote for genocide. Just, go to a polling station and cast a 9mm ballot into the roof of my mouth.