Anecdotally, most current or former homeschooled kids I meet seem pretty socially awkward. I wonder if It’s because the miss-out on the opportunity to learn how to socialize properly as children. But maybe I’m being too critical, idk.

  • AskewLord@piefed.social
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    2 months ago

    It’s fine.

    Homeschooling or not isn’t the issue. Plenty of kids who do go to school have a horrible education. I have known some perfect wonderful home schooled people, and some total weirdo religion nut job home schooled people.

    The issue is the parents. And there isn’t much you can do about shitty parents unless you remove the child from the home, which is typically only done under the case of severe neglect or abuse. The state doesn’t and shouldn’t have say about how people conduct their private affairs though and how you raise children is very much a private affair.

  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    People say there are parents who do it for good reasons and do a good job, but I haven’t seen that and find it hard to imagine as being common. The person I know who was homeschooled had his life destroyed by his parents, with homeschooling being the first of a series of horrifying blows to his mental state. He doesn’t know the very basics of how society works or anything about math, science, history, or language, but he thinks he knows everything. He seems to think everything taught to kids in school is wrong or unimportant. But his Internet rabbit holes? Invaluable.

    Ps he was homeschooled because his parents were religious extremists.

  • PetteriPano@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    My toddler is thriving in pre-school. We can’t teach her how to be independent and socialise with other kids at home.

    I can see a life situation where we would homeschool for a limited time. I’d expect both teaching parent and kid to do standardised testing to make sure the education is up to the national curriculum.

    Home schooling should be be an excuse to not school, which it seems to be in some parts of the world.

  • Hazor@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I was “homeschooled”, along with my many siblings, by Southern Baptist parents. I couldn’t really read until I was 9, and my younger siblings until even later. My older siblings had it marginally better, but not by much.

    I was horrendously under-socialiazed, and I still struggle with debilitating social anxiety to this day. Although I should emphasize that a couple of my siblings are very socially competent and relatively well-adjusted, so I’m not sure how much of my issues in that domain are nature vs. nurture.

    It always made me feel awful and dumb to hear peers at church talking about school-related things and what subjects they were learning, because I had no idea what they were talking about, which exacerbated my social difficulties. In my teenage years I started to understand what was happening, and I practically had to beg my mother for any kind of instructional material. I taught myself algebra with the help of internet friends. I still distinctly recall how utterly unscientific and creationist-bent was a biology textbook I got; it was so bad that even I was questioning it at the time.

    My younger siblings were eventually allowed to participate in a homeschooling “coop” after my younger brother begged for something. Homeschool coops involve homeschool families getting together to have some semi-structured classes, usually something like once a week. Said brother took a “psychology” class there, the textbook for which was written by a guy with a business or economics degree and no background in psychology, and it said mental illness was the result of sin.

    Home schooling in my state is ridiculously under-regulated. All you have to do is be registered with a private school as homeschooling and submit transcripts that comply with the state education requirements. That’s literally it. My mother fabricated them - the records say I took Spanish in high school, but I couldn’t have told you much beyond “hola”.

    I went to college with what was essentially a fake high school diploma. I languished in my 20’s. I got a master’s degree in my 30’s, but I was lucky and happened to be gifted when it came to academia; most homeschool kids aren’t so fortunate. Most of my siblings have not managed to actualize their potential. I myself could have been doing much more much earlier if I hadn’t gotten a woman pregnant during college because I’d never had anyone tell me to use a condom. In retrospect, my parents’ duress at learning that I was having a child out of wedlock is almost comical for having been essentially self-induced.

    I don’t know if homeschooling should be banned outright (as I’m aware of select cases where some parents weren’t neglectful and it was actually a better option for some kids due to various circumstances), but something needs to change. At a minimum, I think homeschoolers should be required to do the same state standardized testing as required in public schools in order to ensure they’re not being outright neglected like I and my siblings were.

    My child is attending public school, which has had it’s own set of issues (bullying and a shocking amount of violence, for starters), but it’s a marvel to me the gap between what she knows and what I knew at her age. She’s learning things that I still haven’t. She’s better off for it.

    Tl;Dr: don’t homeschool, do improve public school.

  • Twinklebreeze @lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I think home schooling (and private schools) should be illegal. Everyone’s kids should have to go through the same public education system. No exceptions. Public schools could use an influx of cash, and there are definitely edge cases that they don’t handle well currently. We should advocate for making them better rather than finding an alternative.

      • PetteriPano@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Not really, but they’ve regulated very similarly to public schools. They have to follow the national curriculum and can’t charge tuition.

        In practice I’ve only ever seen Waldorf schools as far as private goes. Maybe internatioal baccalaureate is private, too? I guess there might be some with focus on going pro athlete, too.

  • Yosmonkol@piefed.social
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    2 months ago

    Every homeschooled person I’ve met has lacked all tact but YMMV. I haven’t met anyone that was homschooled after leaving university so no clue if that improves over time.

  • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
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    2 months ago

    The majority that defend homeschooling do so on pure ideological grounds. They accuse schools of indoctrinating kids, but they want to personally ensure their kids are indoctrinated the way they (the parents) deem correct. “Sex is evil! Women should submit to men! <Ethnicity> is pure evil! Never question me!” - these parents should NEVER homeschool their kids.

    There are very few situations where homeschooling would be better for the kid over traditional schooling, and those situations are usually remedied with the school getting its shit together and being at least decent.

    The school can’t always get better though and can even be harmful to kids, due to bad teachers, bad staff, bad classmates or general precarious conditions, especially if the kid has any sort of special need (autism, down’s syndrome, etc). Changing schools isn’t always an option, whether due to distance or cost of moving back and forth every day, and that’s usually when homeschooling should be done.

    • moonshadow@slrpnk.net
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      2 months ago

      I was homeschooled for pretty much the exact opposite ideological reasons, and am so grateful to have had the chance to explore and develop without institutional constraints. Some great years traveling in a bus and seeing how a wide variety of people lived. To me homeschooling is an ideal of time commitment to a child that most people are unable to achieve, and offloading that opportunity to a centralized authority while you pursue a paycheck is a tragic compromise

      • Bazoogle@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        School is more than just what you learn. It’s crucial for development to socialize with children your age, and close to your age. There’s a reason the stereotype that homeschoolers are socially awkward exists

        • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          There’s plenty of opportunity to socialize as a homeschooler. The stereotype exists because many (most?) homeschooled kids are so because the isolation and rejection of social norms is the point. But there’s also a demographic of them that exist because they live in bad school districts and don’t have the money for private school.

          Neighborhood kids form bonds with other neighborhood kids regardless of the school they go to. Homeschool kids are more often than not allowed to join their local school sports teams as well. I think you’d be surprised how many people you’ve met who were homeschooled that you’d never guess.

        • moonshadow@slrpnk.net
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          2 months ago

          …when someone seems normal you aren’t looking to explain their differences. The chance to socialize in the real world as opposed to a classroom environment is one of the things I value most about that period. We clearly have very different perspectives, in my community yours might be socially awkward. And that’s ok, it is in no way “crucial” for you to think feel or act the way I do :)

  • Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca
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    2 months ago

    Actually not too bad. I wasn’t fully homeschooled, however, my old man augmented what school was teaching me. Basically he taught me mathematics, reading and writing. It kept me well ahead of my class. I had a good handle on fractions and so on at about grade two.

    Then again, my old man was a physicist with a PhD.

  • FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I think it’s a shitty thing to do long term unless your child has disabilities (in which case a school accomodating them is better).

    Send your kid where they choose to go, it’ll probably be school where their friends are.

    I, already being pretty awkward as a child, cannot imagine trying to unlearn awkwardness after suddenly changing to public schooling. Might even have the opposite problem, showing too much energy when interacting with people i don’t know well.

    Definitely DEFINITELY don’t do it for primary (elementary) school age.

    • AskewLord@piefed.social
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      2 months ago

      a lot of homeschooling ends before secondary school. 6-7% of kids are home schooled for primary school.

      only half of them go through high school, only 3% of high schooled are home schooled.

  • Absurdly Stupid @lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I think it’s a big mistake, but don’t think ‘the law’ should get involved, either.

    Include meals, that’s a good incentive and will help a lot of kids that are fed total garbage at home.

    if we can’t feed children what are we even doing?

  • CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca
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    2 months ago

    Big part of school is training on how to be socialized into society. Interact with people who are different than you. Homeschooling provides none of that.

  • Artwork@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Wonderful day!

    And again… I am sorry, but why not just read about it, like… professional researches from both modern and ancient times, existing centuries… Why ask people to invest their priceless finite life time to, again, respond with a yet another set of written messages for the case of multiple investigations/analyses around the planet?
    It’s an incredibly responsible question for the parents/supervisors, and there are serious researches done for it. The answer affects the whole future of the child/person they will depend on all their ongoing life… and, hopefully, their own children…

    A school is not a home, in general, I believe. One of main the main reason a school is exists is - socialization. That is, gaining skills of creating social connections, learn to educate yourself and deal with interruptions and distractions in social environments with so different people, worldviews, and beliefs, in attempt to find yourself and your own identity alongside other people.

    Since isn’t the most important reason for these to help a person to socialize and get used to crowded or accompanied environments, to respect, care, tolerate, or live and do their research within other ultimately infinitely magnificent unique people?

    It’s for the parents/family to decide, since every single child/person is different.
    I do normally stand against “homeschooling” (“wetdrying”) and push towards a socialized organization like University, School, Kindergarten etc.

    The following is an excerpt from earlier discussions I’ve just found in personal notes:

    Socialization process has a significant impact on learning, which is a basic requirement for both the organization and the role performance of the newcomer to the organization. It is considered very important for a new member to socialize organizationally and professionally. This paper focuses on revealing the process of organizational and professional socialization of academicians.

    Source

    -–

    Friendships can positively impact students’ academic performance and grade point average (GPA) by providing emotional support and reducing stress, thereby leading to improved focus and better concentration on studies.

    Peer connections and friendships often result in collaborative learning and the exchange of academic ideas, improving comprehension and retention of course materials, ultimately leading to higher GPAs…

    Academic success is assessed by gauging academic performance in the form of grade point average (GPA), test scores, and overall academic achievement, as well as the measurement of academic motivation and the level of persistence among students in school or college.

    Forming friendships with their peers is an important aspect of adolescents’ and young adults’ lives, and significant research has been conducted on how friends impact academic performance and motivation. Specifically, academic achievement and motivation have been found to positively correlate with belonging to a peer group.

    Currently, young people’s need for a sense of community is particularly high, leading individuals to spend more time with their friends, feel more comfortable around friends than they do with family, and worry about how their friends will perceive them and how the local social milieu will view them.

    Researchers’ concerns about how social networking sites affect different aspects of life, including education, are not surprising. Academic achievement has been linked favorably to social connections or peer interactions in the past.

    Source

    -–

    Of course, in a large population, there are going to be some success stories. But we have zero evidence that, on average, homeschooled students are doing well. There’s actually no way to learn how they do on average because homeschoolers don’t exist as a visible population due to the lack of regulation.

    There are claims being made in what is really junk social science that homeschooled students do just as well as kids in regular schools. But there is no justification for those claims. People making those claims are looking at a subset of the most successful homeschooled students.

    They’re looking at the ones who actually apply to college and go to college, and are assessing how they do in college compared to kids coming from public schools. Those studies tell us nothing about how well homeschoolers do on average.

    Source: Harvard

    -–

    Most of the time when I overheard these women talking about their educational choice, and why they were doing it, the reasons seemed to have one thing in common.

    Can you guess what it was? Fear.

    Source

    Related: Why homeschooling is bad for kids (Debunking the myths…)

    • Artwork@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Just in case, homework != homeschooling. Homework is one of the most important/mandatory part of general common school process, I believe, that lets a person some private time to realize and memorize the subject in their own pace, and prepare for following public discussions and development.

      • ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠@slrpnk.net
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        2 months ago

        No, I’m talking about parents educating their children on academic topics outside of school hours. This is especially useful for very gifted children who may benefit from advanced martial; or for children with learning differences that may need additional instruction on topics other kids grasp intuitively; or for children with special interests that fall outside of what school has time to cover.

        But it’s my firm belief that the more schools fall into the trap of “teaching to the test” the more important it is that parents take an active role in teaching history, civics, philosophy, art, and practical skills, all subjects that more and more schools are leaving behind.

        • Artwork@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I see. Thank you! That makes sense. This probably also proves my point of belief highlighting a school as a system mainly not for education but socialization in education. A system to educate in society and learn critical/common skills to socialize while learning together - realizing/educating together.

  • Fizz@lemmy.nz
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    2 months ago

    Depends heavily on the parents. I had a few cousins who were home schooled for primary school so up until 10yr and they were 100% different to interact with and at the time I thought they were nerdy. But looking back it was because they were better socially developed and more mature than my friends and I. They were far more polite to kids (we were all polite to adults), smarter on topics we learnt in school (they didnt know about stuff like fighting and stealing from the local dairy and couldnt even ride a bike or swim) and more empathetic because they spent most of their time interacting with adults who’d correct bad behaviors while my friends and I would be socializing with kids unsupervised for most of the day.

    But we all turned out fine and had good upbringings.

  • stoy@lemmy.zip
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    2 months ago

    It is illegal here, parents are required to send their children to school for a minimum of nine years.

    This is to protect the interests of the child, Sweden has several laws that are focused on the child’s rights over the parent’s authority.

    I have read arguments from people in the US who homeschool their kids about how it is the parent’s right to manage their children’s education.

    But to me that just seems wrong, in Sweden children have the right to a high quality education that follows a proper plan and is done by professional teachers, it is the duty of the parents to make sure the children attends their education.

    Homeschooling means that the government can’t verify that the education the children receive is up to standards set by the department of education.

    Just about all education in Sweden is free to Swedes and EU citizens, so there is zero financial reason to do homeschooling over regular schooling here.

    • Flagstaff@programming.dev
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      2 months ago

      Homeschooling means that the government can’t verify that the education the children receive is up to standards set by the department of education.

      Well… They do tests. They’re sent to outside test centers so no one can cheat for them and mask their incompetence or something. Doesn’t everyone periodically run tests to ensure they’re on track?

      • Hazor@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I was homeschooled in the US and no such testing was required, and it still is not required in my state. I think it absolutely should be required if homeschooling is going to continue to be allowed.

      • cheers_queers@lemmy.zip
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        2 months ago

        not really. i did the ACT and maybe one other state regulated test and i was homeschooled my entire life.

      • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        You say this but I know someone homeschooled for years who learned next to nothing and is ruined for life because instead of having lessons for hours every day, he played videogames. You’re suggesting he could not have gotten away with that, but he certainly did.

      • stoy@lemmy.zip
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        2 months ago

        You mean the national tests?

        Sure, we have those, they take place in your normal school at the same time all over the country.

        Ok, say a child is homeschooled for five years, and then fails a national test, that means that they have effectively lost a lot of their best time to learn, and they need to retake the subjects to catch up.

        Proper schooling allows for students with special needs to get extra help.

        I was one of those students, I was on the spectrum of having light autism, possibly some ADHD/ADD and similar stuff, I got an assistant teacher in school for several years, and even went to a smaller class specifically tailored towards students with my kind of mental issues, as I grew up I became more independent and learned to live with my difficulties, these days I don’t consider myself to have any real problems from my earlier diagnosis, and can even use them to my advantage.

        I got the help I needed, when I needed it, while attending mostly normal classes and getting socialize with fellow students.

        The socializing part was hugely important for my development, without that I would not have been able to go as far as I have.

        When I look at homeschooling, I see it as parents denying their children a proper education, often to force their own warped worldview onto their children, this obviously comes from someone who experienced a well functioning school, even if I was bullied at times.

        TL;DR: Testing only shows the result of time spent in education, it can’t catch students as they are about to fall through the cracks as a proper teacher can during lessons, this means that a homeschooled student that fails the test has lost a lot of opportunities to get extra help during their schooling.

    • AskewLord@piefed.social
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      2 months ago

      Americans value individual choices over collective responsibilities.

      Homeschooling her is predominantly for those who fell they are not a part of our mainstream culture or that culture is corrupting. A lot of religious and other minority belief groups practice it.

    • selfAwareCoder@programming.dev
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      2 months ago

      I’ve heard that before, and would be a fan of making it illegal in America as well, there’s a strong argument that doing so would improve the quality of American schools significantly.

      The idea being that if rich children go to public schools then the rich will be more focused on improving public school instead of attempting to defund it

    • redsand@infosec.pub
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      2 months ago

      Your books have the same propaganda filtered down from the US and Israel as most of the EU right? And a kinda weird section on WWII like in Switzerland?

      Do try to remember even though your government is relatively competent it is not really your interests or that of your children those institutions serve. It’s still rich old men who want valuable workers.

      Don’t believe me, visit Brussels or an Ikea. You seem too comfortable with your education system.

    • chunes@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      In the US, the quality of schools varies drastically based on where you live. There’s no guarantee that kids are getting a good education unfortunately

      • Somebody_Else@feddit.online
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        2 months ago

        True

        But there is more or less a guarantee that kids that are being homeschooled are not getting a good education.

      • dracc@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 months ago

        The Swedish school system didn’t pop up out of thin air either. Of course you’ll have to invest in the system for it to work.

        • chunes@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          right but we have a significant portion of the population trying to privatize it, which by design makes it unequal

        • AskewLord@piefed.social
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          2 months ago

          we don’t have national education policy.

          education is 90% determined by the town or city you live in. even states have minimal influence over local districts.

          schools in the same district, and schools a few kim apart, can have wildly different standards and outcomes.

          the only major factor is basically, how wealthy your zipcodes/parents were. that is the overwhelming determination of your educational outcome, because richer parents value education more than non-rich parents.

          in poorer communities, education is seen negatively and it’s actively discouraged.

          • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            the only major factor is basically, how wealthy your zipcodes/parents were. that is the overwhelming determination of your educational outcome, because richer parents value education more than non-rich parents.

            in poorer communities, education is seen negatively and it’s actively discouraged.

            I think you’re about to be visited in the night by three ghosts.

          • dracc@discuss.tchncs.de
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            2 months ago

            Right. Then you’d have to start by making a national education policy. I’m not saying it will be easy (Sweden did by no means get it perfect right away, nor is it perfect now) but unless you start somewhere you won’t ever get to a better place.

            • AskewLord@piefed.social
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              2 months ago

              Anytime we do that things get way worse than they were previously. No Child Left Behind accelerated the destruction of our education system by basically punishing poor schools for being poor. Our Federal government should get out of education policy entire. It should provide funds for school construction and infrastructure.

              • dracc@discuss.tchncs.de
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                2 months ago

                Yeah, no, with that NIMBY attitude nothing will ever get done. You really think the rest of the developed world got to were they are without some chafing along the way? It’s almost as if you don’t want shit to get better with that typical American defeatist mentality.

                • AskewLord@piefed.social
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                  2 months ago

                  No. Education works best from the bottom up. Parents are the biggest factor, not teachers or schools.