• Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        That’s the same logic as saying Capitalism is voluntary because workers agree to work for their wages. Such analysis sees the subservience in a vacuum devoid of external pressures or developmental practices.

        • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          2 months ago

          in this case the external pressure is a rogue state doing a cheeky land grab on its neighbor

          i’m not sure why that’s nato’s fault, although i’m very excited that you’re about to tell me

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            NATO was formed to be anti-USSR, after the collapse of which the Russian Federation tried to join NATO, and was denied. The RF then complained about NATO expansion, which had not ceased.

            Regardless of whether or not you believe Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is justified or villianous, it was provoked by NATO expansion, as admitted by NATO leaders themselves.

            NATO didn’t start after 2022, many of its leaders were Nazi officers and it has always been a way to exert Western supremacy.

            • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              9
              ·
              2 months ago

              NATO was formed to be anti-USSR, after the collapse of which the Russian Federation tried to join NATO, and was denied.

              in the same way the us wouldn’t be allowed to join csto

              The RF then complained about NATO expansion, which had not ceased.

              i don’t see how it’s nato’s fault that people are so sick of russia’s shit that they’re signing up to the defensive alliance against them in their droves

              it was provoked by NATO expansion

              nato expansion that existed because of russian land grabs

              nato isn’t the warsaw pact. they aren’t sending in tanks to force people to be a part of their alliance.

              this is just you doing the thing you accused me of doing by refusing to consider externalities

              NATO didn’t start after 2022

              russia didn’t start misbehavin’ after 2022 either

              many of its leaders were Nazi officers

              east germany was part of the warsaw pact, and had plenty of ex-nazis in its ranks

              the reason you can’t draw a line from that to today is because the ussr folded like a cheap suit 30 years ago

              it has always been a way to exert Western supremacy

              you’re just kind of saying things now

              • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                12
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                2 months ago

                in the same way the us wouldn’t be allowed to join csto

                Have NATO countries complained of CSTO expansion? Has the US been denied entry into CSTO? Has the CSTO expanded against the will of NATO?

                i don’t see how it’s nato’s fault that people are so sick of russia’s shit that they’re signing up to the defensive alliance against them in their droves

                It’s NATO’s fault for consisting of the absolutely most grotesque reaches of Imperialist countries, and expanding against the wishes of non-NATO countries.

                nato expansion that existed because of russian land grabs

                Bzzzt wrong. NATO has been expanding long before.

                this is just you doing the thing you accused me of doing by refusing to consider externalities

                Quite the contrary, you’re deliberately erasing historical context.

                russia didn’t start misbehavin’ after 2022 either

                When and why did Russia start “misbehavin?”

                east germany was part of the warsaw pact, and had plenty of ex-nazis in its ranks

                Whataboutism, lmao. East-Germany purged Nazis, that’s one of the reasons the west complains that the GDR was authoritarian. NATO was led by Nazis.

                Anyone that considers themselves a good person cannot be *pro-*NATO. You can disagree with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine without being pro-NATO.

                • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  7
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  Has the US been denied entry into CSTO? Has the CSTO expanded against the will of NATO?

                  i don’t think nato cares about csto

                  It’s NATO’s fault for consisting of the absolutely most grotesque reaches of Imperialist countries

                  russia is literally doing an imperialism right now, but nato is the one with grotesque reaches, okay

                  Bzzzt wrong. NATO has been expanding long before.

                  lmao because nato predates russia

                  and russia started getting into iffy wars basically at its inception

                  When and why did Russia start “misbehavin?”

                  probably because they’re an imperialist power? i don’t know

                  East-Germany purged Nazis

                  okay

                  • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    10
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    i don’t think nato cares about csto

                    So then why bring it up?

                    russia is literally doing an imperialism right now, but nato is the one with grotesque reaches, okay

                    Invasion and Imperialism are not the same thing. Regardless of the morality or immorality of invasion, NATO retains its status as Imperialist via surplus extraction and exploitation of the Global South.

                    lmao because nato predates russia

                    and russia started getting into iffy wars basically at its inception

                    This kinda verges on anti-Russian racism, there’s no analysis of why you believe this.

                    probably because they’re an imperialist power? i don’t know

                    You indeed do not know.

                    okay

                    The GDR indeed purged Nazis, as they were attacked by western Germany, which largely retained its Nazis.

              • Alsephina@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                6
                ·
                2 months ago

                east germany was part of the warsaw pact, and had plenty of ex-nazis in its ranks

                Lmfao the fourth reich west germany literally had more nazis leading it in its government than during the third reich. The socialist states did the opposite and purged nazis — obviously, since fascism is actually a threat to socialist states whereas it’s more of an asset to capitalists with them able to scapegoat marginalized people for capitalism’s faults the more prevalent it is.

                Fully 77 percent of senior ministry officials in 1957 were former members of Adolf Hitler’s Nazi party, a higher proportion even than during the 1933-45 Third Reich, the study found.

                From 1949 to 1973, 90 of the 170 leading lawyers and judges in the then-West German Justice Ministry had been members of the Nazi Party.

                Of those 90 officials, 34 had been members of the Sturmabteilung (SA), Nazi Party paramilitaries who aided Hitler’s rise and took part in Kristallnacht, a night of violence that is believed to have left 91 Jewish people dead.