If you can’t tip, don’t go to the restaurant or bar. Those workers depend on their tips. And the restaurant or bar isn’t just gonna make up the difference for the server just because you decided not to tip.
Proper businesses adapt. But Americans are so stuck in their self-explotationary system that instead they say “fuck off” to guests like you do. And then complain that no guests are coming.
I would most certainly not go anywhere ever again where the tip made the stay emotionally awkward or frustrating.
Americans want tourists? Then they need to adapt to tourists. Or they do not want tourist revenue. Simple.
My tipping expectation:
10% to 15% tip if the service was good. Not polite good by default, but rather only if it was perceived as truly good. And OPTIONAL. If it was self service or machine service then no fucking tip.
I don’t know about every state, but in the US state I live in, if the tipped employee’s tips and wage amount to less than the true minimum wage (not the server minimum wage) the employer is legally required to make up the difference. I just confirmed this on my states labor department’s website (which I will not share as to not dox myself) I’m sure there are other states that have similar laws too.
Here in Europe people who work in bars and restaurants get paid at least the minimum wage. They don’t get paid just a few pounds or Euros an hour with the employer making it up from tips. In fact that’s actually illegal to do throughout the EU and UK.
make the tip automatic 18% and provide that directly to the employee pay stub.
So, like just increase the menu prices to the real price, pay the employees a normal wage and remove tipping? Like how every single non-tipping country does it?
I’m not one to get in a measuring contest, but I think the [masters] are bigger dicks than the patrons who have 0 obligation. $20 entree? That should include the labour of making that, and delivering it to front of house.
Playing the devils advocate here, but if everybody in the states excludes the tip when advertising prices, even showing a price with a suggested tip can make that place seem more expensive and thus less desirable. If a business is unprofitable or goes bankrupt, that will hurt the employees too.
I totally agree with your final point, but the masters in this case are also stuck in the unfair system. Sure they deserve some blame, but the true blame lies with the bigger fish: politicians, organisations and corporations big enough to lobby for laws that fuck over the small guy.
Also, patrons might not have a legal obligation, but if you’re served by someone who does not get paid a living wage, you imo have a moral obligation to supplement their wage. Again, i totally agree this is not a fair system.
But it’s not the voting citizens that caused the problem, nor the voting citizens that can fix it. That should be the case, sure. We can agree to disagree, but ever since I’ve been to places where people are less fortunate then me (weird that imo the US counts as a third world country in that matter, yes), i stopped caring who created the problem and who should fix it. As a person from a more fair system I feel a moral obligation to not burden the individuals I encounter with the shitty position their system put them in. You are entirely free to make your decision on what is wrong and right of course.
If you can’t tip, don’t go to the restaurant or bar. Those workers depend on their tips. And the restaurant or bar isn’t just gonna make up the difference for the server just because you decided not to tip.
Those Europeans are being dicks.
Proper businesses adapt. But Americans are so stuck in their self-explotationary system that instead they say “fuck off” to guests like you do. And then complain that no guests are coming.
I would most certainly not go anywhere ever again where the tip made the stay emotionally awkward or frustrating.
Americans want tourists? Then they need to adapt to tourists. Or they do not want tourist revenue. Simple.
My tipping expectation:
10% to 15% tip if the service was good. Not polite good by default, but rather only if it was perceived as truly good. And OPTIONAL. If it was self service or machine service then no fucking tip.
I don’t know about every state, but in the US state I live in, if the tipped employee’s tips and wage amount to less than the true minimum wage (not the server minimum wage) the employer is legally required to make up the difference. I just confirmed this on my states labor department’s website (which I will not share as to not dox myself) I’m sure there are other states that have similar laws too.
My state doesn’t do that. I’ve never heard of that before. Are you on the East Coast?
Here in Europe people who work in bars and restaurants get paid at least the minimum wage. They don’t get paid just a few pounds or Euros an hour with the employer making it up from tips. In fact that’s actually illegal to do throughout the EU and UK.
Good for them I guess.
But that’s the point… We should follow their superior model! Is that not obvious?
You’re right, we should. Maybe in 10 years we can start making progress to that.
Those Europeans are being dicks to individuals while supporting the way forward for employees writ large.
It is high time that tips be folded into prices and formalized.
Don’t what people to be “dicks”? Make the tip automatic at 18% and provide that directly to the employee on their pay stub.
People scamming tips are the first to scream about the poor workers.
A tip is OPTIONAL. By definition. This bullshit americans have devolved it into is an abomination.
So, like just increase the menu prices to the real price, pay the employees a normal wage and remove tipping? Like how every single non-tipping country does it?
Yes
those European are dicks, but so are their bosses
I’m not one to get in a measuring contest, but I think the [masters] are bigger dicks than the patrons who have 0 obligation. $20 entree? That should include the labour of making that, and delivering it to front of house.
Playing the devils advocate here, but if everybody in the states excludes the tip when advertising prices, even showing a price with a suggested tip can make that place seem more expensive and thus less desirable. If a business is unprofitable or goes bankrupt, that will hurt the employees too.
I totally agree with your final point, but the masters in this case are also stuck in the unfair system. Sure they deserve some blame, but the true blame lies with the bigger fish: politicians, organisations and corporations big enough to lobby for laws that fuck over the small guy.
Also, patrons might not have a legal obligation, but if you’re served by someone who does not get paid a living wage, you imo have a moral obligation to supplement their wage. Again, i totally agree this is not a fair system.
I’ll agree with the moral obligation but I would only burden voting citizens with that. The system is fucked for sure.
But it’s not the voting citizens that caused the problem, nor the voting citizens that can fix it. That should be the case, sure. We can agree to disagree, but ever since I’ve been to places where people are less fortunate then me (weird that imo the US counts as a third world country in that matter, yes), i stopped caring who created the problem and who should fix it. As a person from a more fair system I feel a moral obligation to not burden the individuals I encounter with the shitty position their system put them in. You are entirely free to make your decision on what is wrong and right of course.