Like was it a meaningful debate or a flat out flame war? And what was the main theme you were arguing over?

  • JennyLaFae@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    11 days ago

    Way too many people think trans people’s right to exist is a debate.

    The reading comprehension and overall common sense on this website is piss poor.

    I struggle to recall any “meaningful” debates.

  • BJW@lemmus.org
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    11 days ago

    AI usage. People who blindly hate it fail you realize you can use AI locally without empowering the shitty corporations that are buying up all the RAM/storage and being irresponsible with their water usage for cooling. Data centers suck, but AI is awesome.

      • BJW@lemmus.org
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        11 days ago

        Where do artists inspiration come from? Oh yeah, shitty people scraped all the other art.

        As we know, this destroys the original art and is stealing to boot. Only the blind and deaf are truly creative.

        • TheOrcWhoWrites@lemmy.worldOP
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          11 days ago

          An artist stealing in the way Pablo Picasso argued is not the same as a company using copyrighted material to train its AI. Companies are held to a much higher standard than an individual artist who steals a few elements from other artists to create their own style. Machine’s don’t have these rights. They must comply with what companies have to comply with. There is no debate.

            • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              10 days ago

              Wow it must feel so good to “win” every discussion, huh? Who knew that the secret was to just never ever thoughtfully consider what anyone else says and to cling to your argument no matter what.

              Because who cares about being right when you can make yourself feel good about the thing you believe, right or wrong? Genius!

            • TheOrcWhoWrites@lemmy.worldOP
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              11 days ago

              You are obviously “good” at arguing. You have made a clear point. I didn’t mean for this post to generate arguments .

              • BJW@lemmus.org
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                11 days ago

                I’m attempting to educate. There are literally people on here that believe that AI is “a database with auto-complete.”. It’s so ignorant that it would be funny, if they hadn’t organized into an angry mob out to slander anyone who dares use neural networks to boost their productivity.

                It’s a classic case of ignorance breeding hatred, and the only way to resolve it is for them to understand the technology. Unfortunately most seem unwilling to incorporate understanding into their worldview and cling to misconceptions.

                I don’t enjoy arguing, I just can’t abide misinformation causing derision.

                • TheOrcWhoWrites@lemmy.worldOP
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                  10 days ago

                  I mean I am not against AI. I pay for ChatGPT plus. My brother and I have gotten rogue type AIs off the dark web and mess around with them locally. I use Gen AI for reference images to look at when I draw. They are also for inspiration. I just feel it is an injustice to artists. If it were somehow possible for Gen AI to credit the sources of its generations, which I don’t believe is possible since the training is baked into the AI. That would be advantageous. Regardless, I don’t have any real strong opinions for or against it.

    • tal@lemmy.today
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      11 days ago

      My guess is that the great bulk of the anti-AI stuff originates with people who are scared of losing their jobs in some way.

      • BJW@lemmus.org
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        11 days ago

        Yeah, probably. That’s on the shitty fascist governments, though, that should implement Universal Basic Income and tax the companies profiting from AI to fund it. Their anger is severely misplaced and it’s incredibly frustrating as someone who went to university for years to study AI.

      • Meatwagon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 days ago

        It’s fine to personally hate AI, but a lot of people dog pile others for using it for themselves. I despise corporate AI, but if someone is locally hosting their own, not using it comercially, and not stuffing it down other people’s throats through their “artwork” they “made” or other nonsense I don’t see the problem of making the best out of a bad situation.

      • BJW@lemmus.org
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        10 days ago

        Care to enumerate them? I’ve yet to read a valid reason to hate my using an open weights model, powered by solar energy, on my personal hardware. Doesn’t stop the hate, but I’m always open to hearing why it exists.

        • Tenniswaffles@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          10 days ago

          “My GPU runs on solar” is a great answer… to a question nobody asked. Hosting locally cuts server energy use. It doesn’t magically erase the training data issues, copyright, scams, misinformation, hallucinations, or the broader social impacts. You’re arguing against one criticism while pretending you’ve answered them all.

          • BJW@lemmus.org
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            10 days ago

            It was a response to “AI ruins the environment.” Humans have the same training data issues as AI, so therefore there are none. Copyright can be addressed in the same way as humans. Scams? What does that even mean? What scams do AI do that humans don’t? Misinformation? Because humans are infallible and always give correct info? Hallucinations? Right, I forgot humans are perfect and always give the right info.

            Broader social impacts is a new one. You hate AI because of broader social impacts? You got me then. There’s no answer for that. Alright, everyone, pack Pandora’s Box back up, Tenniswaffles hates AI because of the broader social impacts so we have to abandon the technology.

            • Tenniswaffles@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              9 days ago

              Every one of your rebuttals boils down to “humans do it too,” as if that settles anything. It doesn’t. Humans can lie, plagiarize, scam, and spread misinformation. AI makes all of those faster, cheaper, and infinitely more scalable. That’s the entire point, and you keep pretending scale is irrelevant because acknowledging it wrecks your argument.

              Your “Pandora’s Box” rant is just a straw man. Nobody said AI should be abandoned because of its social impacts. You asked why people dislike AI beyond data centers. You were given several reasons. Instead of addressing them, you built a ridiculous caricature so you could dunk on an argument nobody made.

              At this point, you’re not refuting the criticisms, you’ve just downgraded every objection to “humans do it too.” By that logic, we’d never regulate anything. Humans steal, so why have laws? Individual humans pollute, so why regulate industrial pollution? Humans commit fraud, so why care when AI lets fraud happen at industrial scale?

              At this point, you’re not rebutting the criticisms, you’ve replaced them with a lazy thought-terminating cliché. “Humans do it too” is what people say when they don’t have an answer but still want to sound like they won.

              • BJW@lemmus.org
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                9 days ago

                No, you’re missing the point entirely. AI is a tool, and with any tool the person responsible is the user. There are already laws in place for people who produce forgeries, plagiarism, scams, etc. If someone uses AI to accomplish something dishonest there is already a process in place for addressing that. We don’t need special considerations for AI any more than we need to to determine what to do when someone burns a building to the ground with gasoline versus just matches. The crime is still arson, so hating on gasoline because it made the fire burn faster is just stupid.

                There are plenty of people on here saying AI should go away. There’s an entire community on Lemmy called fuck_ai who would disagree with you. Pretending they don’t exist doesn’t make the analogy a straw man.

                The only criticism I’ve seen is regarding data centers, because haters are too moronic to separate the two. It sounds as though you fit into that category, as well.

                But no, I’ve realized I can’t change anyone’s mind so I don’t care anymore. Enjoy your hate parade. There’s your thought-terminating cliche. I don’t care anymore.

                In the future I’m just going to decline to self-report as someone who uses AI. People can’t tell anyways, which is why self reporting is necessary. Admitting it is just volunteering for punishment. So no, I don’t use AI, never have and never will. Go argue with someone who uses AI, because that’s not me and never has been.

                • Tenniswaffles@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  9 days ago

                  You keep changing the question.

                  You asked why people dislike AI. I gave you reasons. Now you’re arguing whether AI users should be legally responsible for misuse. That’s a completely different conversation.

                  And your gasoline analogy falls apart because gasoline isn’t designed to generate persuasive text, images, voices, or code at scale. AI is. The concern isn’t that it’s “a tool” it’s that it’s a tool that dramatically lowers the cost and effort required to produce plagiarism, scams, misinformation, and deepfakes. Society has always treated technologies differently when they massively change capability and scale. That’s why we have regulations for cars that don’t apply to horses, and aviation laws that don’t apply to bicycles.

                  As for the “fuck_ai” crowd: congratulations, you’ve found some extremists on the internet. They aren’t representative of everyone who criticizes AI. You asked why people dislike it, not whether literally every critic wants it banned.

                  The irony is that you’ve spent this entire discussion asking for reasons people hate AI, then dismissed every reason as either “humans do it too,” “it’s already illegal,” or “those people are morons.” You didn’t come looking for reasons you came looking for excuses to ignore them.

  • Tiral@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    People that believe all that ghost shit on YouTube is real. It’s basically boomers and religious tards with a 3rd grade education that don’t understand how easy it is to edit video for the average person. They all comment “May Christ protect you” and other crap like that. While these people pump out an episode every week like clock work where they’re possessed, attacked, or some other BS. Best part is when they go “we almost died” over and over, because name one person on a paranormal investigation that died that isn’t an obvious natural cause.

  • Luc@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    Buying a Pixel to install GrapheneOS is not the only reasonable alternative to mainstream Android.

    Each person has their own threat model. My priorities will be very different from a journalist in China, a whistleblower, or even my own mom. Some are more at risk of ransomware and a device with root is risky. For myself, I’d incur that risk as a power user and would rather my phone can be backed up so I don’t have to worry about it breaking. GrapheneOS devs/followers believe that security is the only thing you must ever want, nothing else matters, and everything else is irrelevant, as though Google or street thugs will come to your house and exploit your bootloader if you don’t give them data voluntarily. They just don’t realistically question the statements the project makes, like what threats are worth mitigating (ubiquitous tracking? Who cares, I’ve got security patches and a locked bootloader!) and what options they’re giving up by using GrapheneOS that’s about as locked-down as the average Samsung phone. The marketing game is super strong because it’s hard to argue against at scale: everyone’s situation is different and “don’t you want to be safe?”

  • mechoman444@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    The difference between socialism and social democracy and how most people actually advocate for the latter rather than the former due to a fundamental misunderstanding of what the definitions of those two things are.

    • AskewLord@piefed.social
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      10 days ago

      for sure. i got several comments removed for being anti-semetic, and anti Palestinian.

      they were comments in sequence citing statistical facts about the situation. which we not convenient to either’s side being absolute good vs evil narrative.

  • printf("%s", name);@piefed.blahaj.zone
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    11 days ago

    I stated that in a democracy fascist, racist, neo-nazi political parties should not have the right to form, campaign or run for government because - other than the obvious reasons - they are inherently undemocratic. I also added that this is not a paradox of democracy and that claiming otherwise is apologist bullcrap trying to justify fascism, racism or other institutional, totalitarian forms of oppression.

    I got death threats.

    Edit: maybe this doesn’t apply here since there was no arguing really? 🤔

    • Iconoclast@feddit.uk
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      11 days ago

      and that claiming otherwise is apologist bullcrap trying to justify fascism, racism or other institutional, totalitarian forms of oppression.

      That’s just making a statement and refusing any challenge to it. Debate means searching for the truth and acknowledging you might be wrong. Now you’re just turning it into a personal attack toward anyone who disagrees with you. It’s intellectually dishonest and in bad faith.

    • TheOrcWhoWrites@lemmy.worldOP
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      11 days ago

      Yeah, Lemmy is a bit more sophisticated and civil compared to other social media. That is why I always come back.

  • BurgerBaron@quokk.au
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    10 days ago

    Meaningful never, I liked suggesting junk food/sugary drinks should be treated exactly like Cigarettes on reddit which is mostly American and watching the sparks fly.

  • Lovable Sidekick@lemmy.world
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    11 days ago

    I would say it’s mostly topics I’m not actually arguing about.

    I tend to point out false statements or false assumptions. I do it regardless of the topic or my position on an issue, but usually it’s taken as general opposition to whatever the person was saying. So they call me a shill or demand that I prove a ridiculous point of view they imagine I must hold. It’s like only The Enemy is expected to care about the accuracy of what The Right Side says.

    • FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca
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      11 days ago

      I always hate when someone I agree with makes a stupid argument. Then if I point out their bad argument, I look like I’m arguing the other side

      • AskewLord@piefed.social
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        10 days ago

        i hate it when someone argues with me by telling me i made a stupid argument by making a stupid argument.

        usually my falsely attributing a fallacy to me, which they themselves perform in their counter-argument.

        and then they basically go ‘no, you were illogical first, if you don’t admit it you are stupid and I am smart’.

        OK, really big-brained logic there.

  • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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    11 days ago

    That historical events can be approached and assessed without contemporary extrapolations. But to boil down years of internets, including old ezboard forums, I’d say it’s been over the Clean Wehrmacht theory/myth.

    I used to be really into WW2 history communities and I would routinely approach things objectively and piss a bunch of nerds off who pervert history and just want to obsess over how Hitler could’ve won.

    So I have argued far too much with people who hate Hitler just because he lost the war to Stalin. Like, primary sources would mean nothing. I’d have correspondence transcripts from commanders and diplomats, and they’d have their latest Hearts of Iron game run.

    • AskewLord@piefed.social
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      10 days ago

      those folks aren’t interested in history, they are interested in fantasy.

      for a lot of folks, that’s all history is, or why it’s fun, it’s the fantasizing about it. It’s not the boring staid work of a true historian who is looking at boring crap like cargo manifests to piece together the reality of history.

  • c64z86@piefed.world
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    11 days ago

    The treatment of those with disabilities or who are just down on their luck, by the mostly apethic “I’m alright jack” public. I’ve had many arguments with those who thought that just because somebody needed benefits that they were milking the system.

    The most disgusting and revolting thing I can read on the subject from somebody is “if I’ve managed to get by fine without state help and support, so can/should they”… And yes many do actually think this way, sometimes even to those who need wheelchairs or other aids.

    Sometimes I’ve managed to convince them to care about somebody other than themleves for a change, sometimes I’ve caused them to go away thinking about it, and other times I’ve caused them to double down on their stance.

    Either way, the engagements were meaningful and eye opening and I’ll defend this position until the day I die because nobody has any business being that disgusting towards other human beings.

    • TheOrcWhoWrites@lemmy.worldOP
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      11 days ago

      I agree. Sometimes people who value equality forget about equity. That is helping others to achieve their own level of equality. A person in a wheelchair needs a ramp, a person with an invisible illness needs accommodations, too. Equity is almost always overlooked but it is necessary for true equality to occur. I wrote a whole paper about this in college.

  • Iconoclast@feddit.uk
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    11 days ago

    AI and the meaning of the terminology around it. Usually starts when someone confidently makes the incorrect claim that LLMs are not AI.