The atmosphere is so heated, and the statements are getting more and more extreme. Let’s just assume Harris wins the election. After a campaign like this, how could you ever have a normal relationship with your pro-Trump neighbor/father-in-law/Uncle/Barber or what ever again?
Unless we get a blow-out for either candidate that cannot be challenged, which does not seem likely based on the polls and battle lines, even if we have a Biden-esque victory for Harris, I’m fairly unsure of what will happen next. I personally doubt full on Civil War like in the Garland movie, or the actual civil war, but I would expect all kinds of shitty legal tricks, possible Supreme Court involvement and of course, stochastic and targeted violence, particularly towards immigrants and minorities. In other words, win or lose, I think the US may be in for a bad time. Hopefully I’m working in my assumptions here and it is somewhat more boring.
To better answer your question though, assuming things don’t completely fall apart: the two sides already don’t mix much, which is part of the problem in the first place. We’ll get more govt inaction due to gridlocked congress, probably more defense spending and some states, in the absence of federal legislating, will continue to take a larger role as they have been doing already in the recent era.
So basically more of the same, on a not-great trend line. Something has to give at some point, it’s hard to imagine how you could put the genie back in the bottle now, particularly with overall conditions in the world due to late-stage capitalism and climate change constricting each year.
For me, it’s super easy. My “normal” relationship with Trumpers is one of intense scorn and derision because they’re terrible people that I want nothing to do with. So nothing’s going to change for me.
It’s pretty simple: they willingly sacrificed every last ounce of humanity for a grifter / bully. They’re not coming back. Chasing after the relationship you used to have with them before they decided to embrace virulent hatred is a losing proposition. Sure, you can mourn that lost relationship, but hoping that they’re going to magically see the light and stop being the human equivalent of anal warts is only going to cause you further disappointment and pain.
You don’t. It wasn’t really normal before 2016 and normal left the building since.
Since 2016, its been a constant onslaught of idiots that live on the internet creeping out into the real world with their bullshit and conspiracy theories and half of America taking them seriously
I blame McCain. When he chose Palin to be his running mate in 08, he gave voice to the crazies on the right wing. It wasn’t long after that that we saw the rise of the tea party, which led to maga.
I think it really started with the Clinton impeachment, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, then we had the stolen 2000 election, then 9/11, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, “support our troops”, anti Muslim rhetoric, then the rise of social media. All coincides with the brainwashed kids/boomers who came out of the heritage foundation. Obviously, the racism and conservatism was always in the background. You could even trace it back further to Regan/Nixon/McCarthy.
You can trace it back as least as far as Barry Goldwater and the rise of right-wing “think-tanks” in the 1960s which came as a backlash to the civil rights movement and the perceived dominance of left-wing politics in government. Which led to Nixon’s “Southern Strategy”, right-wing talk radio, Fox News, and the ongoing brainwashing of much of rural America in particular.
Yeah the tea party started around 2009, so that tracks. However, I’d say we had this current undercurrent of fascism since Reagan. I don’t know if it was a little more chill in the few decades before him but we did also have FDR and internment camps, the Amerocan nazi parties live the German American Bund and others.
It’s something that american society can’t seem to shake nor doesn’t want to
This attitude is part of why we have this problem today. These people didn’t come from nowhere. They weren’t just creeps on the internet. The percentage of the population that desires a trump presidency is far too significant. Half the country has been quietly wishing for a christo-fascist oligarchy since 2001. They’ve put in a lot of time and effort to make their dream come true. It’s a shame nobody was really watching (even though the FBI has reports going back years about the infiltration of white supremacy groups into law enforcement), at least not close enough to make a difference in its growth.
The unfortunate truth is that this was allowed to happen. We dismissed their beliefs as crazy rantings instead of real threats to be addressed. If people more readily acknowledged the beliefs held by trumpets as real (a real threat) instead of internet insanity, we wouldn’t be here. Instead, we shoved them away, crying wacko. Now the propaganda runs so deep in some, there is literally no turning them back. The rise of fascism in this country hasn’t been taken seriously enough. And I don’t think it ever will be, until it’s far too late.
We dismissed
No, the Democratic Party and enlightened centrists dismissed the threat. There were people like me rallying against this bullshit since George W Bush stole the 2000 election. Some of us were able to hear these crazies clearly and realized what they wanted. We were told to shut up and stop overreacting.
Being able to say “I told you so” isn’t much of a salve when you’re starting down the barrel of a totalitarian regime, but don’t paint us all as rubes. People were sounding the alarm, they were ignored.
You are correct. I wish I had more to say than that. I wish I was cogniscient of these issues back then.
Whole i agree with most of your comment, I’m not really reading any solutions. I’d my attitude is the problem, what’s the proper attitude to have to deal with these imbeciles?
The proper attitude is to treat their beliefs as real (to them) and not just conspiracy or insanity. To look at them as your brother or sister and ask yourself “how did they get this way?” and not just hand-wave away their beliefs as insanity. The proper attitude is to truly engage with those who aren’t just acting in bad faith. How to differentiate that aspect, though, is getting harder to the point of impossibility. I fear we may have reached a tipping point where it becomes impossible to discern bad faith from deep propaganda brainwashing. I’m not sure if there is still a path forward in genuine conversation and understanding, which is the only route to breed empathy, something these people both lack within themselves and are deprived of from outside. I don’t see it as their fault. I see it as a failing of the community at large, one that is more ready to shun the individual, because that’s way easier than actually trying to genuinely engage them and help them grow as a person.
I believe the way out of fascism truly is love and compassion. My fear is that it’s a cycle; the perceived distance of fascism makes our society more susceptible to being taken over by it, leading to a fascist society benefiting the few, leading to the grassroots recognition that we are one people and one humanity, leading to an uprooting of fascism and rise of empathy.
Sorry if this was a bit hard to follow, I haven’t been sleeping well and I’m awake far too early.
Yeah the differentiation is the trick.
How does one engage sometime who thinks that Harris is literally the antichrist?
Lol.
What’s normal?
you don’t. you believe them when they tell you who they are and remove them from your life.
Very easy to hate. But it’s part of the cycle.
Nah, I cut my parents out of my life entirely due to the racism they have allowed to grow and fester around them in the last few years. I’m completely done with it. Not giving them any reason to think it okay or forgivable.
my dad was spouting trump shit. I don’t know if he was legit or just trying to get a rise out of me, but fuck that. il told him “I don’t associate with trump supporters, so fix that or move on. you raised me better than that, stop drinking Kool aid.”
It’s not hate to cut horrible people out of your life. You get to pick who you let into your universe. Be picky.
It isn’t hate. It’s leaving the evil, cruel, and/or misinformed alone.
Or, do what a disturbing number of people have done and make them the centrepiece of your entire life.
Posters all over your house, stickers and flags all over your mobility scooter, hats, T-shirts, the lot.
One of our neighbors had a MAGA collar for their dog…THEIR DOG. Why do they need to drag their DOG into this? He was a good boy. (Was, because the dog passed away from cancer a year or two ago.)
Idk maybe I’m getting older, but I’ve been through enough elections in my life to step back and see that this happens every time. The Internet turns to shit and everyone flings shit for a few days and then it’s back to normal.
I feel like I’m past my prime in caring as much this year. My battles were fought in the past and now I’m disinterested in politics because I’ve been disappointed every time.
Past elections didn’t have one of the candidates spouting Nazi rhetoric, though. I think this election is a whole lot different (and holds more at stake) than Bush vs Gore, for example.
More at stake than Bush vs Gore? Bro forgot about the 20 year war already
Hi. Looking at your recent post history, I think you might be a right-winger pretending to be a socialist who is arguing for not engaging in this election in order to ensure Trump wins. If that is true, you’re unpleasant.
I’m flattered you looked at my history, but you didn’t have to spam my comments. Yeah I’m a Bernie guy, not a Republican. I feel like the democratic party has given up on progressives like me so I’m disinterested in voting this time around. I’m getting tired of people accusing me of being a trump supporter, not going to lie.
I’ve always been a very anti war person and find it funny everyone is calling Trump Hitler when Biden/Harris are actively supporting genocide. But hey what do I know, right? “Vote blue no matter who” bullshit every year with no primary, right?
I feel as if boycotting this election is the moral high ground and it’s fucking rude that people keep telling me it’s equal to voting for Trump. How is that a tactic to get people to vote for your person anyway?
You have to think of the lack of primary as a sunk cost. The decision in front of you is independent of all previous decisions.
So, we just going to reward that?
Certainly not. But choosing to punish at this precise opportunity would be like shooting your own feet.
Punish at the local level. Punish by supporting voting reform. Etc.
Boycotting is a powerful tool and should be respected as much as voting
Not voting at all is just laziness.
Spoiled ballots may have some long term influence. But they have no power over the election being boycotted.
I feel as if boycotting this election is the moral high ground and it’s fucking rude that people keep telling me it’s equal to voting for Trump
It’s fucking rude that you’re prioritizing a fake moral high ground over the lives of the people who will suffer and die under the fascist GOP.
No different from voting 3rd party
Yeah, that’s shitty too.
Sorry you have main character syndrome 😕
I’m not even talking about myself. Quit bullshiting
There is no “vote blue, no matter who”. There is “vote against fascism”, plus many of us like the blue candidate.
I’m all for your goal of two sane candidates, one blue and one progressive, and will be very happy to join that debate. Let’s get there first
Sorry but I think people are taking the whole Trump = fascist thing too seriously. Both candidates are really middle of the road moderate. People just get really excited right before the election
It’s unpleasant that you assume this
We haven’t really since all this far right bullshit started. It gets less intense after elections, but it’s different from before: When the elections ended, things did pretty much go back to normal. This shit is a plague on humanity and it’s happening all over the place. I think it’s being driven by billionaires and corporate conglomerates, look at the history channel for example: They stopped showing actual history and now just air bullshit reality TV, like they want people to forget the horrors of fascism.
Elon turning Twitter into a Nazi bar, Bezos quashing the WaPo endorsement, Peter Thiel and all his bullshit, Putin and his oligarch buddies: This shit is a concerted effort to bring back some of the most horrific shit humanity has perpetrated just so they can keep on getting richer and maintain their power.
I don’t think that they do recover anymore. Not since Bush Jr.
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I cut them out. Don’t remember where I heard the quote but there was one that goes something like “Our values are so different that any relationship we could have that doesn’t fall to violence cannot be a genuine one.” Essentially we care about things that are too different to be able to talk to each other honestly and get along.
Isn’t that like half the country? I sometimes get called “harsh” for wanting to cut the ~10% of AFD-Voters entirely out of my life.
Call it harsh if you want, but they react to my identity and my beliefs with violence. I’m not going to put myself in that situation and frankly they don’t have anything interesting to say. Why continue a relationship in which I would either have to lie completely about who I am, or tolerate hate speech directed at me or my loved ones? I don’t get anything out of being connected to them, its actively detrimental to my well being. The ones who were family I made it clear that they would not have a relationship with me if they kept at it and they did, so they chose hate over me.
US voter turnout is abysmal, so half of the voters means like 30% of the people.
Not even close to half. More like 30%. Probably a little less.
About half of voters.
As for the other people who can vote but don’t, even knowing that one “party” is now a secular cult swearing to build the fourth reich…well, you’d have to ask them. Fuck if any normal people can figure it out.
Maybe this is the reason why American election campaigns never really end.
You can’t go back. This isn’t just a political difference of opinion, this is a full blown violent cult. We need greater funding for mental health and deprogramming services.
This is pretty much what I thought. But I hoped there was maybe something more 🥲
It sucks to make an observation, hate it, be right, do more looking to disprove it because it sucks so much, and keep unavoidably being sucker punched by the same conclusion everywhere you go.
Oh, that’s easy; we don’t! Every four years, the fabric of our society frays and tears a little more, while our politicians either exploit our divisions or attempt to repair them without making any changes to the material conditions or systemic problems that create these fractures, because fixing these underlying issues would upset the handful of billionaires that actually control our government! But there’s a new Fast & Furious movie every two or three years, so it balances out.
Not only that, but if they fix the problems that they used to get your votes, they can’t use them again next election, and we can’t have that so at most you get a pittance of “fixes” while they just blame the other side for blocking it and then the other side does it with a few of their issues. And we’ll keep voting for them too because A) who else? B) the other guy is worse, and C) this time they really will fix everything they continually run on. Any day now…
because fixing these underlying issues would upset the handful of billionaires that actually control our government
And how exactly are they supposed to do that without a super majority that is impossible with the population continuing to elect MAGA Republicans?
There is no bipartisan possibilities. No one from the right will step across the aisle to make constitutional amendments or impeach corrupt SCOTUS justices or fascist party members. And they’d need 1/3rd of them to do so for the authority to fix anything.
There is no moving on. Nothing can be fixed. Voters should have woken up after Jan 6th, but Republicans still gained seats in the mid term elections.
There is no legal path to fixing this, we can only do our best to bail water and keep them from sinking the ship.
History didn’t start in 2016. The Democrats were happy to cozy up to the Silicone Valley tech giants, even as they developed into monopolies whose products gave users the very brain-poisoning that delivered Trump. They were happy to prioritize Wall Street bailouts over homeowners’ bailouts after the subprime mortgage crises, even if meant their constituents lost their homes. They’ve been happy to sideline or undermine anyone who dares run to their left, from Bernie Sanders to Rashida Tlaib.
The Democrats are not well-meaning, helpless progressives that just can’t get anything done because of America’s byzantine political structure. They have actively stopped any significant changes to the status quo in order to keep their donors happy. They’ve spent decades deluding themselves into thinking they could somehow improve conditions for the working class without demanding concessions from the billionaire class, even as the largest wealth transfer in history, from the lowest income Americans to the highest income Americans, was taking place. They may not be as vile or hateful as the Republicans, but they are just as responsible for America’s decay.
There’s miles of difference between the damage that corporate stooges do versus a literal fascist movement. If this were the 2000s, yeah, I’d be with you all the way, both sides pillaging our futures and all that.
But you’re focused on that asshole stealing your catalytic converter down the street, when you’re actively getting mugged and curb stomped, here and now.
There is a very real possibility of this country descending into fascist dictatorship, and/or huge loss of life from an ensuing Civil War.
Right now, the Dems are at least united like they haven’t been in recent memory because they finally understand what’s at stake. It is absolutely infuriating that you guys are still nitpicking over comparatively trivial stuff compared to cataclysm.
This isn’t hyperbole, this is literally what they have been repeatedly caught expressly trying to accomplish. Yes, it seems like it’s crazy to consider that they might actually achieve their goals. But with everything we know, Trump is still very likely to win this election thanks to people like you who can’t seem to prioritize the violent muggers trying to kill you, over the guy stealing your catalytic converter.
What about my original comment led you to believe I thought they were equivalent? As I said, Republicans are vile, hateful, and exploiting our political divisions for power. But the Democrats are just as responsible for the material conditions that have allowed facism to flourish, and demanding accountability and change for that isn’t nitpicking. If the Democrats don’t stop being corporate stooges, this doesn’t end if Trump is defeated; it ends when another fascist finally wins.
Yup, but they’re all we got at the moment.
Yup. We gotta vote for them this election, but replace them in the next. Otherwise, we’re just hitting snooze on fascism for another 4 years.
If Trump wins, you don’t
Yeahhhh, that why I rigged this scenario, because “Civil War” would be a very terrifying answer.
I’ve cut out all Trumpers after Jan 6 2021 basically except for maybe my wife’s parents. I’m afraid to ask them. All of us have a spoken agreement to not bring up politics because we all have to see each other and don’t want to fight. A major caveat to that is that we see them as little as we can though.
