I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil. How can they win back the country? Is it too late?
Too late for that.
Yes. It is too late. This was the inevitable outcome. Sooner or later.
Dems here are like UK Labor. They’re a right wing party who occasionally cosplays as a left leaning one when they need to. They stand as the bullwark against any form of left wing populism. And they’ve done their job to the letter.
Our economy is almost entirely debt driven financialization and gambling. There is another subprime mortgage crisis brewing. Exactly the same as the one in '08, except way bigger. And our economy is far more precarious than it was then.
What do you mean by “win back”?
They’re trying to get liberals banned by coaxing out suggestions of terrorism
I think this is going to be the end of the USA as we know it. After this period, democracy will be significantly impacted.
The western world as a whole should be terrified. There has been a sharp dip towards conservatism that will only accelerate with Trump back at the helm in the US. Brexit didn’t occur in a vacuum.
Though this isn’t about conservatism, is it? Trump doesn’t like democracy and half of the things that shaped the USA. I mean there is some overlap but he should be opposed by any sane conservative. I think it’s more a dip towards fascism or something else.
Can be a bit of both. Everything is prompted by a desire to return to the “before” times. For Trump’s supporters, that is a hypothetical, undefined time when America was “great”. For the Brexiters in the UK, that was the pre-EU period when Britain was a global empire. For the conservatives in Russia, it is the yearning for the USSR days.
Fair enough. I always hope we’ll move towards a better future… And not backwards. But you’re right. You pick some random time in history and then make up some policies that supposedly get you back to that place. And an additional psychological factor is, most of us had our best time when we were young, life was easier, less work and less consequence. So we might want that back instead of our current, more complex life.
By not being single issue shit heads.
Revolution, just like what the other side tried a couple year ago
Violence. There will not be a second option.
Feel free to wait until the camps start, liberals. That will be the “civil” course.
See, this is why I rent.
As if the majority had a fucking choice.
I’m not usually known for preaching peace, as I genuinely do not believe there is a peaceful way to defeat fascism. But, now is not the time to kill anyone. Violence at this moment would be ineffective and unfocused.
For the next four years (assuming Trump is not wholesale slaughtering us) becoming a politician would be a better use of your time than engaging in violence. For the next year or two, civic engagement (or political subversion) will have more effect than physically fighting
However, if widespread murder of the innocent begins taking place, please disregard my peaceful message.
Correct. The time was in July but that guy missed.
Not too late for someone to give it another shot.
However, if widespread murder of the innocent begins taking place, please disregard my peaceful message.
We’re a year deep into the slaughter of Gaza.
Gaza is about to be erased. Their genocide will be accelerated and completed in Trump’s first year.
The local genocides here in the U.S. are going to happen over a longer period of time and may not begin right away. When they do begin, though, that is the time for violent resistance, for whatever good it might do.
I’m not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.
With a functional justice department we’d have a chance. There’s nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines. There’s nothing to stop them from not certifying an election. We’re about to have the scotus filled with young like-minded Republicans. We’re about to have every federal judge biased for them.
Even having both sides of Congress the best thing we could do would be to status quo because every time a veto is overturned the scotus could just stamp it down as unconstitutional.
The president has God King status, he can have opponents jail for executed.
The thing is even if none of these things were in play, The popular vote just voted for a dictatorship. He was utterly and absolutely clear and anyone that says he was joking around doesn’t actually believe that they’re just too embarrass socially to announce that they themselves are racist/fascist/misogynist. There is nothing here to win back. We’re better than 50% rotten to the core and those people aren’t going away.
Even this election wasn’t right versus left it’s right versus more right. If you put a true left candidate in they’re just going to get murdered. (That may or may not be literal)
I’m not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.
I don’t understand this sentiment as I’m hearing it a lot.
We’ve elected a fascist into the highest office. We’re cooked. There’s a lot we can do right now, but the most important thing is organizing. Organizing your community, your family, your town/village/city. Organizing mutual aid, direct action, and resistance. How much more do we need until people actually get off their asses and start doing something about it? Like the time for peaceful and democratic means of avoiding fascism was before the election. But a fascist is now in power, so are we going to wait until the troops are rolling down the street to do anything? I’m not saying go out and just commit wanton acts of violence in the name of revolution, but the longer we wait the more difficult it will become to get organized, involved, and yes armed.
I don’t understand this sentiment
There’s a lot we can do right now, but the most important thing is organizing
Organizing? Resistance? Armed? That’s honestly insane.
You’re going to organize against half the US? Gonna start a civil war with every last (fully armed) enemy in your own backyard?
They could blockade cities from food and shut down any movement in 3 days.
The Civil War worked efficiently because there was a battlefront. This is more of a Republican Soup.
Good luck with your local police. They’ll get a federal warrant and gleefully raid your home at 3 am.
There’s nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines.
Given that the Democrats have known the districts have been gerrymandered to hell and back for decades now, why haven’t they spent any time at all doing their own redistricting, rather than strongly pushing agendas that affect 0.5% of the country?
Oh dems have. But you have to have control of the state to do that. Hogan (R governor) tried his damnest to unwrap central Maryland from Western Maryland.
The first bill filed in the House of Representatives and Senate after the 2020 election which resulted in the Democratic Party gaining nominal control of Congress and the White House was a bill to ban partisan gerrymandering, require independent redistricting committees, forbid states from imposing onerous voter registration or identification regulations, limit the influence of rich donors and wealthy PACs in federal elections, and generally just make the process of voting better for Americans.
This bill was called the Freedom to Vote Bill and was numbered H.R. 1 and S. 1 for the House and Senate versions, respectively. It passed the House of Representatives in 3 March 2021 and received unanimous support among the 50 Democratic senators when the Senate held its vote on 22 June 2021. The bill was blocked from advancing due to a Republican filibuster.
On 3 January 2022, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York announced plans to abolish the filibuster for legislation in order to allow this bill to advance. President Joe Biden had previously indicated he would sign the bill. Schumer made his move on 19 January 2022, moving to change the filibuster rule to require continuous talking, i.e. in order to filibuster a bill, someone must make a speech and keep talking for the duration of the filibuster, with the filibuster ending when they finish talking. Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin, members of the Democratic Party representing Arizona and West Virginia, respectively, got squeamish and voted against the change. All Republican senators voted against the change. This doomed the bill’s passage through Congress as the filibuster could be maintained indefinitely by the Republicans.
The bill died when Congress was dissolved pending the November 2022 general election, in which Republicans won a narrow majority in the House of Representatives.
Manchin and Sinema’s terms with both expire when the new Congress is convened on 3 January 2025 following the November 2024 general election. Manchin did not seek re-election in yesterday’s election and will retire at the expiration of his term. Sinema was forced out of the Democratic Party and originally planned to stand as an independent before deciding against it. She will retire at the end of her term.
Due to the innate malapportionment of the Senate, it is exceedingly unlikely that the Democratic Party will ever regain majority control of the Senate.
So I point my finger at these two idiots for sinking American democracy as we know it.
Even that doesn’t address the mess that exists today. It’s a great example of why they keep losing. They’re going to make it impossible to gerrymander after the lines have already been redrawn to benefit the Republicans? Why? Why would they do that? They’re essentially committing to always fighting an uphill battle for the rest of their days. I respect the principle, but not the approach. You cant lock a scale while it’s broken and then expect it to measure correctly. They need to pull their heads out of their asses and start playing to win. To start recognizing the strategies which continually defeat them, and start countering with some equally aggressive strategies of their own, or their time is done.
I think I phrased my comment wrong on this. It doesn’t ban the act of gerrymandering, it bans the results of gerrymandering. Gerrymandered maps would need to be redrawn had the bill been enacted.
This bill was no slouch. It directly abridged several states’ voter suppression laws. Had the bill passed, the next phase would have been people being able to use the federal courts to strike back against these incompatible laws.
That being said, if you were the leader of the Democratic Party, what would you have done? Not intended as rhetorical snark, I’m just curious as to what other ideas there are.
Okay, then that sounds reasonable. Regarding your question, I suppose I would have held a primary and put someone on the final ballot who the people voted for. That would have required acknowledging before the primaries that Biden wasn’t fit to continue, which from what I’ve read, they did have full knowledge of, but refused to act upon.
That’s easier said than done though. Right? Like I’m not directly exposed to the corruption inherent in the system and the demands placed upon them in order to secure enough campaign funds to have a chance at all. Although I don’t think sticking to the actual system as it was designed would cause the loss of donors.
Oh, and I’d get rid of the super delegates. In short, I’d stop trying to control who gets on the final ballot to push my party agenda, and instead let the people actually elect the leader they want. Again though, that’s probably a lot easier said than done, and I’m an outsider not privy to the dealings that take place behind closed doors.
I have to agree with you there. I think the Democratic Party was scared of inviting infighting with a primary contest which Harris would probably win anyway, but you’re right—Harris had no mandate from the party membership and even a lightning-round primary conducted online would have been better.
Facism is capitalism in decay. America just proved that the decay is rapid.
Liberal institutions just paved the way for facism to take root.
I’d like to learn more about
Facism is capitalism in decay.
Is that just a think people say or are their studies or books about this?
Here is an explanation.
Facism is a reaction to the institutional failures of capitalism brought about by many scholars. Mainly brought about by the working class left behind looking for a change to the system.
Places in history where it happened
italy (1920’s) voters wanted a stronger economy with trains to run on time germany (1920’s) voters wanted a stronger economy without a destabilization of currency
Is that just a think people say or are there studies or books about this?
But why male models?
Wait till next election. Trump can only run for two terms.
Electoral whiplash is such a waste of time
With the current rules, which he now has 4 years to repeal.
One would hope that is the case…
There will come a time when Trump is not physically able to keep campaigning. You might not be rid of MAGA come that day, but Trump won’t last forever.
Putin also was able to only serve for two terms, so he replaced himself with a crony until he could change the law to remove term limits…
Thank god he’s old, then, because he’s not going to last long enough to be long time dictator. But maybe thats not the point, even if trump is gone, if hardcore republicans dismantle elections to ensure they’re perpetually in power, then who the current figurehead is will be the least of our problems
Americans HAVE their country, this is what they want, this is what they voted for. Stop treating Americans as if this is something pressed upon them. They chose this. Now they will live with the consequences.
Balkanize.
We engage in democracy.
Harris was a terrible candidate who was forced into the race. I was hoping she could pull it off but it’s pretty clear that what we needed was for Biden to step down before the primary so that we could have a real election.
Trump by all metrics is a much much worse candidate. The democrats should have been able to run a literal turd and still win. It’s not about the policies, Trump ran a cult and it worked. Its absolutelt mental.
