• Modva@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    That’s up to Trump, because your vaunted checks and balances are gone.

    Think he’s going to show restraint? Insight? Empathy?

  • NeoToasty@kbin.melroy.org
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    5 months ago

    In terms of seeing more credible people take office that has an honest mind in what’s best for the country and not for themselves or their party. I say we certainly are likely past the point of no return. That wall was cracked when Reagan took presidency and then the wall was just demolished just by one Trump term.

    So now we’re going to be expected to see all sorts of crazy people, just jumping at the bit, for their shot to take some sort of office, despite having had no credibly solid background of politics or understanding in managing the big office. Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor of California, Kane (wrestler) became mayor of a county, Dr.Oz is now in a political position after scarily coming close to a senate position. It’s just maddening all around.

    We’ve been experiencing numerous government shutdowns or coming close to another government shutdown because all politicians collectively could not get their shit together. If we’re past the point of no return, about whether America has any credible influence and sincere posture on the rest of the world. Yes, it is the point of no return and it’ll take many generations to fix. It won’t be this one though.

    • LeadersAtWork@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      It should be noted that through all this people fought for those rights. So don’t fall asleep, dear America, because organizing even within small communities will make a difference.

      If done correctly, massive change can happen. Dream big so that those who fear negotiate back down to the levels you’ll accept.

    • lazylion_ca@lemmy.ca
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      5 months ago

      Dont forget the trail of tears.

      The US has been through a lot and will likely recover, but it would be nice to avoid making the same mistakes again. How many more people have to get hurt before humanity learns?

      • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        5 months ago

        How do you replenish the oceans and maintain life for any ecosystem humanity lives off of? Most of America is set to be desert by 4 degrees c average warmth increase. You won’t grow crops outdoors. We know we are guaranteed to blow past 1.5 now without being able to stop it as are actions are to late. Yet we are saying “drill baby drill”. The topographical map will change drastically.

    • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      The part about our history you’re forgetting is that we never, through any of that, gleefully elected a guy that has made it abundantly clear he doesn’t give a fuck about democracy and will work to subvert or destroy it if it doesn’t suit him.

      This is new territory.

      And we’re about to experience the deconstruction of things that will be very difficult to build back.

      Your point is that we’ve been around for a few hundred years, so we can bounce back. But history would like to point out that nations that were around much longer than us have ceased to exist many times over.

      I wish I had your optimism.

    • SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      5 months ago

      On the other hand, do keep in mind that mighty empires have fallen. We cannot say for sure that things will be fine just because in the past the USA has survived

    • NineMileTower@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I feel like a lot of people online need to read this comment, go outside, and live their life. This is not defeatist, and it’s not unreal optimism. Thank you for this.

    • juli@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      democracy survived

      LMAO!!

      Choosing between two candidate picked by lobbyists/corporations, and anyone else not having a slightest chance in hell isn’t a democracy, but hey, you do you.

      It’s slightly better than China/Russia having a single candidate and everyone else is just for show.

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I share your broader view and cautious optimism. In fact I think that some of what we are seeing are death spasms of that white hegemony that used to lynch blacks at will. They lost their “hard” power long ago with the end of Jim Crow. And they have been losing their “soft” power ever since. Demographic trends point to white people in America eventually becoming a minority. Religion is also dying out. So much of what we see is a panic of a dying group that was once dominant. There is no way that’s ever going to be pretty, anywhere, at any time. But look at the trend behind it and it’s an encouraging one, even if the death spasms are incredibly difficult. TBH if the Democrats could just provide some real leadership into this future, America could flip into a totally different country, much like the liberal democracies of Europe (but way stronger) inside of 20 years. This is the reality that the old guard are scared shitless of, and why they are pulling out all the stops to go the other way.

    • GelatinGeorge@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I think the problem here is the concurrent effects of climate change. The US couldn’t have picked a worse time to move from flirting with facism to full-on marrying it.

      You can deal with one crisis if you’re coordinated enough but the chaos that’s already occurring with the climate - and is set to become exponentially worse - doesn’t give me much hope for a harmonious conclusion to this. Obviously, I hope I’m wrong and you’re right.

  • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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    5 months ago

    Point of no return for what?

    Do you mean its fall, like Rome?

    No, I don’t think so at all.

    I actually think we’re on the cusp of actual, true reform.

    But if I’m wrong, just try to remember that millions of people lives happy, fulfilling lives, even while Rome fell around them. We will too.

    • Snapz@lemmy.worldOP
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      5 months ago

      You sound like a scoundrel…

      “You can drown out the screams and dance if you just hustle hard enough!”

      • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        Uh, no, that’s not what I said. It’s just a fact that when empires fall, almost everyone living in it just live their lives regularly

  • Hemingways_Shotgun@lemmy.ca
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    5 months ago

    Just to be the nihilist in the room, I honestly think that the point of no return for humanity occurred the moment we stepped down from the trees and started to evolve. And I’m not actually kidding.

    I’m not an evolutionary expert, so I’m more than likely talking out of my ass, but I was an Archaeology Major with a focus on the Bronze Age Collapse and what I can tell you is this…

    From a certain perspective, the same evolutionary traits that brought our species to this point, are the very same traits that will keep us from moving forward past it. Selfishness, resource hording, greed, the urge to continually expand at the expense of others. Fear of “others” outside of ones own community; all these things in some form were beneficial to growing from hunter gatherers to urban/agricultural societies. We needed organisation to build cities, so we created monarchies. We needed ways to control the growing population, so we created a fear of a deity.

    We needed a reason to not allow too many people in to our society so that we didn’t waste resources, so we created borders and the concept of “others” that aren’t like us. Now, all of that has to get binned if we have any hope of getting past this point because the only way forward is as single planet, not petty nation states. But every single thing that brought us to this point prevents that from happening. It’s ingrained in our very DNA, so to speak.

  • NineMileTower@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I choose to believe that we are not. The true fight for our democracy by the working/middle class hasn’t even started yet. Some think it won’t. I choose to believe that good will again triumph and life is roller coaster of good and bad.

  • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Yes.

    In my opinion we’ve already passed the point of no return and recent events have just confirmed as much.

    This isn’t about having differing political opinions. A profoundly unfit, amoral criminal with a very public history of being an awful person came along and started spewing extremely dangerous rhetoric, some of which is almost verbatim to Hitler’s, and our society ate it up and made him president in 2016. This man, who leads a party who courts racists/sexists for their votes, utterly failed his tenure as president, bombing his response to the greatest American crisis since WW2 and presiding over the highest White House administration turnover rate in U.S. history. Since then he has become a convicted felon, an adjudicated rapist, and illegally attempted to overturn our democratic institutions by various means.

    This go around the American people were presented with a choice between that person, who only managed to make himself appear even more unfit during this campaign season, openly stated he is anti-worker rights, and is directly responsible for removing women’s federally protected right to bodily autonomy, or a successful prosecutor with a doctorate in law, backed by a party that, despite misinformation, has a voting history proving they vote in favor of the average American FAR more than the opposing party…and Americans STILL managed to drop the ball and go with the CLEARLY worse choice. And when I say clearly, I’m talking about by every conceivable metric that exists in reality.

    At this point it isn’t about Democrat vs Republican or Trump vs Kamala or Biden. It’s about the American people. We are not a society of intelligent voters. We have failed our responsibility as citizens in a democracy by being too lazy to learn and by allowing misinformation to mislead us and emotions to cloud our better judgement. We are not engaged in responsible involvement in our own politics. We gleefully elect people that only offer hate and fear and lies, despite how hard they try to prove how awful they are to us. And THAT is why we have passed the point of no return. If you remove the parties and the politicians out of the equation, you still have a society that fails at responsibly preserving a democracy. That gives in to hateful rhetoric and fear. That wants to get the better of the “others”.

    There is no happy ending for a society like that. A society like that can only decline. This was not an election about one political ideology against another. It was an election about morality. And we categorically failed that moral test.

    There are excuses. We’ve been through a lot. Lots of people are desperate. Desperate people make bad decisions. But the bottom line is we don’t live in a society with a majority of responsible adults making responsible, fact-based decisions about the most important things.

    In the arc of history we may end up reaching a better place, but personally I believe we’re embarking on a decline that will most likely last the rest of our lives. It simply isn’t a problem that can be fixed short term. And we’re about to experience a sort of deconstruction. A deconstruction of norms. A deconstruction of institutions. A deconstruction of education and safety nets. And those things take a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to build back, because it’s easier to destroy than it is to create or maintain.

    Buckle up. Try to find happiness where you can. It’s probably not getting better anytime soon.

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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    5 months ago

    Doubt it.

    The rest of the world isn’t lucky enough to never have to hear about the perpetual US election cycle again, and frankly there’s just too much money in it for them to give it up.

    It’ll be a fucking clown show for the next four years though.

  • Wilzax@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Unless there’s nuclear war, there’s no such thing as the point of no return. Just a further slide into more egregious civil rights violations. Eventually it will get better, hopefully through democratic means and not violent ones.

      • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Trump is the worst dictator ever, seeing as he literally got voted out last time and could do nothing about it.

  • Lightsong@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    It might be for some stuff. I’m worried that it’ll have a lasting impact on women inside the USA as well as outside. Inside, they’ll have their rights taken away over time. Outside, morale will be impacted. But I’m hoping it’ll cause an uprising rather than the other way around.

  • 4grams@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    This is based on nothing but vibes and my observations but I think so. We were cooked the moment we elected the clown the first time, just been a slower slide than I anticipated. In truth though we already had the disease at that point but it was then it became terminal.

    I desperately want to be wrong and will do what I can to prove myself a moron. Fingers crossed.

  • orcrist@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    No. People always want some apocalyptic ending, but there’s always a chance to make adjustments in various ways. It’s just that some solutions, the ones that are less painful and involved less people’s lives getting destroyed and less death, some of those solutions become increasingly distant.

    And look, if you go back and check out the history of unions and labor rights in the US, it was a bloody history. I think we might be looking at that repeating itself. And that’s only if we’re lucky.

    • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      5 months ago

      So what is your solution when we blow past 4 degrees © rise in temperature and most of the land on earth becomes uninhabitable? Shift all the farms up north which will die of freezes annually, or move all agriculture and life indoors permanently? Surely mining all the resources to put all of human life indoors will be a non issue? Or is it just the 5% that get indoors to survive and then the lower 90% of that 5 become the poor disadvantaged driven to be the new poor slowly? Or is your hope that the top 5% after killing most the world’s population once indoors will simply accept a form of socialism then?

    • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      You probably don’t.

      Even with a contentious subject like abortion. That’s a disagreement about a specific topic. You can reach a middle ground. It’s one of many topics to debate over and forge legislation regarding.

      But the majority gleefully electing a guy that effectively looked us all straight in the face and said “I don’t give a fuck about democracy and will attempt to subvert or overthrow it if it doesn’t suit me”? Yeah, there’s really no recovering from that. At least not without a long period of serious decline and suffering, followed by lots of struggle and death to earn back what we lose.

      We disrespected the shit out of our democracy and everyone that fought/died for it. There’s no way that ends well.

  • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Maybe. US history is full of crazy fucked up shit that the nation has made its way through thus far. This kind of situation hasn’t really happened in the US before though, and historically these kinds of situations do not work out well. We are past the point of no return in that the status quo Washington Consensus or whatever you want to call the previous era is gone now, whatever is coming is something new and different and the US role and position in the world are never going back to what they were before. Really I would say this process started with Bush II but there is no reversing it now that Trump has won a convincing electoral victory. Whether we’re past the point of no return for the US constitutional order isn’t really clear yet but it’s not looking good.

    • Snapz@lemmy.worldOP
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      5 months ago

      Appreciate your measured response. I’m wondering how long it will take folks to stop coping out of self preservation and say out loud that this isn’t anything we’ve seen before - it’s brand new and can go as far as has been threatened.