Yeah, I voted for Harris. Unfortunately, 6.27 Million 2020 Biden voters did not do the same.
I saw your deleted comment, so a bit more information. I am currently working with NATO and The UN. Though I can’t ally with a leader who won’t be transparent and meet for a private dinner. In my inherited culture it’s not only a sign of respect but deeply ingrained in history. When tacticians and leaders would meet. It’d be a beautiful and detailed feast. With discussions of plans and otherwise. Most people here act in haste, btw no offence. Voting for a leader is much more than a face, or speeches. To properly vote for someone. One must understand them and to me. That is hearing them face to face speaking. I also contacted Trump with a very bold message. Like how I thought he was the reincarnation of Hitler. Though I came to question certain things but even then. I offer my services as a tactician for hire. Though I will make sure all your ideas are done ethically. You can probably guess he didn’t answer since he only wants loyalist. But I was never going to vote for him for sure.
Right yes I actually meant to ignore you and comment on the next person down.
Do you live in one of the 7 states where that even mattered?
It matters for all of us, we have a way to contact the whole world at our fingertips.
What we desperately needed and still need now is to support the DNC without fail, to convince people to vote blue no matter who. With better outreach we can right all the wrongs, with 60 D senators we can pass everything needed to fix this nation.
The Blue no matter who thing is how you got here. It’s not a good strategy to always be like ‘the other guy is literally Hitler’, also, we’ll copy some of Hitler’s border policies, and we’ll go on the campaign trail with some of the people that enabled the previous guy that we called Hitler.
If you want to get people that aren’t just committed democrats to vote for you, you need to offer them something, don’t just say the other choice is worse.
Simple I couldn’t vote due to. Kamala deciding to stay silent in my offers. I don’t align with speeches but visions. I asked for a private dinner to discuss these future.
If they wanted to vote for a right wing reactionary they would have voted for Trump, not the one pandering to his base.
Enjoy Fascism then, innocent blood is on your hands.
The blood is on the hands of anyone that supported the duopoly. Fascism has been here but liberals have been too distracted at brunch to pay attention. Everytime they accept ‘lesser evil’ they are accepting incremental fascism…
The USA is a first past the post system.
The choices were good and bad. “Not supporting the duopoly” gave fascism. You’re effectively a fascist, that is your impact on the world.
The choices were shit and shit regardless of who won, the red fascist or the blue fascists.
Let me key you in- everyone thinks you’re a shithead. No one gives a fuck how sanctimonious you feel for “voting your conscience” when it’s clear you and people like you allowed the worst possible option to assume power.
Because your “purity” is doing fuck all for the people that are going to go to camps, have their healthcare fucked with, their entire lives upended.
Sincerely, eat shit.
It sounds like somebody got triggered, liberals put Trump into power by being ineffective at governing and ratcheting all of the Republican right-wing legislation that’s put in place over the last 50 years. If liberals bothered to hold their own politicians accountable and refuse to support them when they did actions that directly targeted the working class, someone like Biden or Trump would never have had the opportunity to come into office.
Yours is the party that is willing to overlook a genocide and in some cases deny that there is a genocide, a party that labeled protesters to that genocide as terrorists. That has laid the groundwork and built the foundation for things like mass deportation, militarizing police departments which Trump will now weaponize. Liberals that spent 50 years accepting small amounts of lesser evil which in turn accepting incremental fascism.
This is a bed that liberals have made for themselves and the rest of the country and now they’re really uncomfortable with it. They love talking about purity tests while allowing their own politicians to get away with everything that they want to because they know that liberal voters are ignorant enough to keep coming back and elect them, because they have no red line, they have no backbone.
Liberal voters are so ineffective at creating change they target the symptoms of a corrupt system and not the system of exploitation itself. In case this is not clear, Trump is a symptom of a corrupted system. And by refusing to address that corrupted system that their party is part of. They continue to harm the marginalized communities that they constantly virtue signal for. But it’s very difficult to see that harm that you are inflicting when you’re busy at brunch when your president is in office
And far more didn’t vote at all.
Let’s stop acting like we’re so surprised. Millions were told repeatedly what would happen and they did. Not. Care.
This is America. In all its ugliness. We truly need to own it because enough people here did not care.
Thats what I said, they didn’t vote at all. Trump votes did increase but only barely. The DNC voters just stayed home because everybody shits on them online.
Just because they voted for Biden does not mean they were registered Democrats. A lot of people turned out for Biden because we were hot off the first Trump term so a lot of leftists/progressives/independents voted for Biden when they normally wouldn’t have. Unfortunately they have memories the size of a goldfish’s or legitimately hated Biden and didn’t turn out this time and in fact worked to depress the vote as much as possible.
By DNC voters I meant people who voted for the DNC in 2020, explicitly.
ok, so the answer is ‘no’ for you, then
We have had one there for 25 years now.
A consideration to the ending of slavery in the United States was the advent of photography. Film was used to share the horror of the Nazi concentration camps in WW2 because they knew there would be people who deny history. Israel denied access and targeted journalists in Gaza for over a year for a reason.
Public perception sways from indifference to protests when they can’t look away from the destructive results. It’s the whole reason black sites like Guantanamo Bay exist in the first place and were used to hold extradited citizens without due process for years, they want to pretend the Constitution doesn’t exist and they haven’t sworn oaths to it and will do everything they can to hide their crimes.
@[email protected] Just pointed this out. We already see the horror every day. Aint nothing going to happen.
Did we stop them from building the internment camps at the border in his last term?
call these camps or detention centers whatever you want. It is the wrong language. These places are not owned and ran by the US gov. They are owned and ran by mostly 2 companies. Geogroup, and core civic. I encourage everyone to learn this, and to relay it. Instead of getting rid of these compounds, we need to get rid of these companies who have turned our justice department into a for profit billion $$$ industry. These companies are publicly traded. Cops and teachers have their pensions invested in them. YOU could have investments in them and not even know it. Esp if you work for the government
I feel like “It’s not a concentration camp! it’s a for profit concentration camp!” isn’t the great rebuttal you think it is.
It is important to understand we are being attacked by capitalism. Our freedom is a publicly traded product. It is not just Trump dictating orders. Capitalists make money by taking away our liberties because that is how the system functions. And it is global. Anyone can invest in these companies and give them a stronger platform to remove our freedom.
And this is where lemmy needs some mastodon features for boost and repost
Nope
Did we stop the Biden administration from using them once Trump built them? No, no we did not.
Okay now that we agree concentration camps bad, what is your opionion on trump making new ones?
Also bad I expect these to rapidly go from detention camps to work camps.
FoxCon 2: Nacho Boogaloo
Biden made a gesture, but it was feckless and performative. He EO’d not renewing DOJ contracts with geogroup and core civic, but the current contracts stayed in place and were years from expiration. And, it was just DOJ which does not include ICE. Geo and core run the majority of these detention compounds on the border. They have been buying political influence with the money they get from government contracts. Of course Trump is all in for it. They have been lining his pockets for a long time. The more people locked up, the more money they make. And by “they” I am referring to shareholders, which consist of cops and teachers and other municipal workers who have their pensions invested in geo and core. Capitalism has started to eat its own tail.
Yeah, never mind, you know Trump built them. No bid deal great guy.
Does your arm get tired with all those straight elbow salutes or do you get used to it? How hard is it to learn that craze walk you guys do?
Are you accusing me if supporting Nazism because I have an issue with the government using concentration camps?
Do you think you have a moral high ground when you suggest that it is ok for one party to use these camps?
I believe we shouldn’t he deporting undocumented people who haven’t violated serious laws. Do you think differently?
Nah, it’s because I looked at your post history.
Which is filled with antifascism. On the ither hand you are claiming it is ok for one side to use camps. That’s weird.
He’s still stuck in 2014 and thinks screaming Nazi at everyone who disagrees with him is going to change people’s minds.
People like that are just using the performative righteousness as an excuse to bully people.
People like that are just using the performative righteousness as an excuse to bully people.
Don’t disagree about the performative righteousness (also appreciate the new term) - but the current admin, many of its figureheads and an alarming number of its supporters sure fetishize the Third Reich. Not really something to be ignored, imo.
Completely agree. We all must take action, but here isn’t a great place to discuss it.
You just watched over a year of a live-streamed genocide. What makes you think either party is opposed to this? Or that the people will draw the line here?
At this point, beyond enduring, I’m afraid there is no “non violent” options. And to be clear, I don’t think non-violent options are going to improve anything, just that there’s not much else to do.
Agreed that there is no non-violent way to stop this admin from making concentration camps in Guantanamo, but there are plenty of things you can do to keep people from ending up in those camps without using violence.
Most undocumented people get snatched up outside of their homes. Keeping an eye out for ICE, and breaking their cover is a huge help (Just walk up to them and say ‘Hi’, ask what they are doing and in general occupy their time with innocuous conversation), you can also provide food and financial assistance to your affected neighbors, as they may be unable to work without getting snatched. Make an emergency plan with them for who to contact, and if they have an immigration lawyer in the case that they get grabbed. If anyone with a badge actually asks about them, you don’t know shit, you’ve never seen shit.
I already did, it didn’t work.
Many of us did. I hope we find each other on the other side.
Gitmo should have been shut down two decades ago. Torture, waterboarding, “advanced interrogation techniques” … don’t think we forgot about that. It’s a shame that no American president had the courage to close down dirty military institutions.
Stop. This is so fucked up. This has nothing to do with president’s of christmas past. This is the current president opening a concentration camp. Just stop with this false equivalence.
You had 2 Democratic presidents since it opened. It’s a legitimate criticism. Trump is using existing infrastructure that could’ve been dismantled.
Same with the patriot act and surveillance state: the thing that we warned everyone about is going to happen: the President has a ridiculous amount of power that is going to be abused (even more) now. But the bipartisan consensus was that terrorism was worth giving up your rights and privacy for.
Thanks captain hindsight. You’re probably the only person who’s thought about gitmo in the last 20 years.
No, there’s at least two of us.
Did you know your inaction on the matter resulted in trump opening concentration camps. Good job.
What are you even talking about now?
Just telling it like it is. You had the opportunity to close gitmo if you did more and you let it pass through your hands. It’s like you personally put the concentration camp there.
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Wow, thank you. We’ve done exactly what we should in this moment of deprivation. We looked to the past and blamed a black man while throwing up our hand saying, “nothing can be done.”
Well done everyone. Good job. Really pulled through on this one. Thought we might be against concentration camps but how stupid am I to not forsee that the democrats did or didnt do something and now that’s all that matters.
PM me if you’d like to know how I really feel.
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It’s important that while we are looking for solutions for the now that we also reflect on how it could have been prevented. If this is burned into our memories, maybe next time someone that represents us gains power we’ll force them to prevent something similar from happening again in the future.
Bitch please. If trump didn’t have gitmo it would be some other place. Yes, gitmo is convenient but you stop nothing by removing it from the board.
So fucking ignorant.
How about this, you don’t want concentration camps, vote for the person who isn’t openly fash.
Over turning Bush II’s policies were the primary reason I voted for Obama. Since then, I’ve only depressingly voted for democrats on the basis that they would at least slow the rise of fascism.
This isn’t “both sides”, but if we couldn’t get gitmo closed with democrats, how could we do it with bold faced fascists?
I mean, Biden did at least manage to get it down to just 15 inmates. Which isn’t perfect, but it’s pretty fucking good.
And I’m pretty fucking tired of people voting in Republicans who fuck things over royally, vote in Democrats to fix things, then vote Democrats out because they didn’t fix things fast enough. It takes a hell of a lot more time and effort to build and repair things than it does to blow them up in the first place. What’s that saying: Republicans get to be lawless while Democrats have to be flawless. Eff that shit.
I didn’t know Biden got it down to just 15. That was a big improvement
Exactly. 15 people in Gitmo is still a moral stain on the nation, but at least some semblance of progress was made. Not fast enough, still terrible, etc.
Trump is vowing to make that - just numerically - 2,000 times worse than the current numbers. And that’s just looking at raw numbers, not even getting into the ethics of the people themselves (do we really think they’ll be even half as rigorous as the shit level of rigor for former/current prisoners if they’re trying to capture thirty thousand people?).
And I’m tired of not being allowed to criticism democrats just because republicans are worse. I still voted for them. I should be allowed to criticize and pressure them to do better. Politicians wont do better unless you’re constantly on their ass.
Oh, so the expectation was always that a authoritarian was going to seize control of the federal government and open a concentration camp there? Funny, cause I never heard that argument but, yeah, sure, completely salient now.
Yes, actually. Edward Snowden risked hanging for treason by leaking the NSA mass surveillance program for just this reason. He’s the last true patriot, imo, and I wish he’d stayed and made the government take him to trial over their blatantly illegal program instead of ending up as a trophy on Putin’s shelf.
Again, not playing your fuck fuck game.
You’re talking like it hasn’t always been a concentration camp. If liberals bothered to hold their own people accountable and have an actual red line that couldn’t be crossed, someone like Trump could have never made it into office.
The most gitmo ever held was maybe 700-800 people. Trumps talking 30000. Just because it’s a building and war crimes are done there doesn’t mean it’s a concentration camp.
People are still being held there, with no due process for over 20 years.
1 person being held with no due process is as bad as 30000.
Liberals and their fucking trump derangement syndrome keep fighting the wrong things.
1 person being held with no due process is as bad as 30000.
Please explain this one to me, because I’m not understanding your math.
“Once a cop is responsible for 1 murder he may as well continue to kill because 1 murder is the same as 30,000 murders.”
Bush II was already fascist and used gitmo for exactly that. It’s specifically outside the US boarder so they can make an argument that American civil rights laws don’t apply there. At the very least, press and public can’t reach it.
People were screaming from the top of their lungs that this exact scenario. Yes, this was expected and we cared too much about the economy to care.
Again, this is a false equivalence. Show me where bush II staged a coup. I have no love for the man but it’s entirely irrelevant to what is happening today.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/10/timeline-20-years-of-guantanamo-bay-prison
Show me on the timeliness where, “people shouted at the top of their lungs” that gitmo would be repurposed to open concentration camps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/03/politics/brooks-brothers-riot-trump-what-matters/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore
This shit has been a slow boil since Bush II or even Goldwater.
Oh so as long as people aren’t open and proud about it, you’re fine with thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis being raped and tortured by Uncle Sam.
Good to know the only real problem here for you is the rhetoric.
What you’re saying right now is rhetoric. I have never been for gitmo, and you fucking know that. Gtfo with you lecturing anyone about rhetoric.
2000 was a judicial coup dawg
You really don’t understand what false equivalence is and frankly I can’t teach you if you haven’t caught on yet.
Dude, fascism didn’t spring into being fully formed out of nothing on the dawn of January 20th, just as the Roman Republic didn’t crumble in a day. It’s been decades and decades of baby steps towards this point, until we finally got to where things could get much worse all at once. Yeah, Kamala wouldn’t have made gitmo into a concentration camp, but she wouldn’t have dismantled the machinery built by the war on terror and the war on drugs that the fascists are using right now. Let’s not oversell it; at best, she would’ve kicked the can down the road another four years. Our past leaders all had chances and made commitments to close gitmo, and they had the perfect authority to do so, and then decided that they could wield the tools of fascism wisely rather than destroying them so that a future fascist wouldn’t have them just laying around.
Yes, I am against concentration camps, I just wish that our previous decades of leadership had been too. If we’re going to do accountability, let’s do accountability.
… keep wishing in one hand and shit in the other.
Okay, real talk, human being to human being. Things are bad enough as it is. You’re clearly not happy. I saw elsewhere that you said you’ve been trolled since 1 am, and that’s a super shitty sounding feeling. I release you from any charge to respond, you win the argument. Why don’t you take a break, go get some sunshine, drink your favorite hot drink, and call or text a friend, maybe one you haven’t spoken to in a while? Take care of yourself, take a break from social, come back if you want to when you’re feeling better.
If we put kamala in the white house do you think there is even a 1% chance she would open a concentration camp at gitmo?
I believe that having the choice to either expand gitmo, close gitmo, or do nothing and leave it for the next republican to deal with, she would choose to do nothing about it, which is still better then Trump and why I voted for her, but it was a depressing vote. She is not more progressive then Obama and Obama did not close gitmo. You don’t gently wine down Auschwitz.
I was excited when Obama won and would close gitmo. I was hopeful that Biden would have a huge program to reunite the separated families. I begrudgingly voted for the cop that the DNC thought was a good idea after months of BLM protests. I’m burnt out now.
Gitmo was never an immigrant holding cell before for holding innocent individuals and families. Even if it didn’t exist Trump would have found some other place to set it up. Gitmo existing or not has nothing to do with anything.
How many people has Donald Trump had tortured…so far? His crimes still pale in comparison to George W Bush, who should have been hanged by the neck until dead as the war criminal he is.
Ok?
Kind of jumping into the middle of yours and his here, but the ghosts of our past is quite frankly always relevant. As a gross oversimplified example, WW1 caused many hard feelings and set the stage hat led to WW2. The end of WW2 left the US in a position to consolidate a large amount of power, while the Soviet Union gathered allies to match. This put In place many scare tactics you see used even today. The collapse of the Soviet Union put Putin in position to become the president for 30+ years. One could say that Germany backsliding caused the Kaiser to put Lenin on a train to the Russian Empire is the reason the world is in the state it is in today.
The ghosts of our past are ALWAYS relevant and pretending things should be changed in a bubble does no good when planning the effects. Torture has been shown to be ineffective and counterproductive. Many voters opposed Citizens United, yet it was passed under Obama. Many citizens opposed the Patriot Act, citing it’s opportunity to be misused to indefinitely hold people. And sure enough Bush signed it and we are still dealing with the repurcussions.
Both Obama AND Biden ran on the platform to close Guantanamo so it could not be misused, and did not. Could Trump have reopened it? Sure! But then we’d be faulting him for reopening it AND using it as a camp. It’s not “both sides nonsense” to say that if Obama had succeeded in it before he left office, we wouldn’t be in this position. He stated as early as 2009, and had 7 years after that to get the votes together, ultimately handing it off to Trump in 2016 with 0 inmates because he failed to get a vote to approve it. Trump didn’t close it for obvious reasons, and then Biden had 4 years to take his crack at it and also failed to close it. And now, here we sit almost 20 years later with bushes prison island still open, being used for the same evil bush used it for - hiding people from the press so those nasty headlines stop because they can’t access the island.
Their platform was not, “I will close gitmo”. Maybe somewhere in the parties platform it was in there but that is not what they ran on and quit trying to rewrite history.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/24/obama-guantanamo-bay-closure-republicans
It was definitely something he ran on, and Obama even signed an executive order to do it.
I’m not going to sit here and argue semantics with bad actors trying to obfuscate Americas plunge into fascism. I just want you all to know, you guys are disgusting.
PM if you want to know how I really feel.
It’s not semantics it’s literally cause and effect. In the initial post YOU replied to, they simply stated that if preventative maintenance had been done we would not be having to ask “what reaction is appropriate” so soon. I know YOU’RE looking for answers to the OP, but then you replied to someone simply bemoaning that we could have been better.
Obviously, at this stage no one is really sure what to do. Is the US really sliding into New Nazi Germany? To what degree? What is a proportionate response to any level? Should anyone actually do anything or will the government sort itself out? Remember, 49% of the voting base DID vote for him, as much as you or I disagree with them. To use violence against someone who is, at this stage, still a democratically elected leader, would be fair game to put anyone in prison. That’s the catch-22 of the issue - he’s still fairly elected, but as soon as the declaration of the formation of the first Galactic Empire, you’re already too late.
If someone DID react, what do you do? Peacefully- Strike at work? Block road/railways? Stand in the doorway of trump-aligned businesses? Or escalate into violence- Burn buildings? Which ones? Even further - Does every city devolve into street warfare like Mogadishu in 1993?
Cause and effect. What happens if you do the peaceful things? The violent ones? Will people follow your peaceful resistance and risk their jobs for your cause? Will people follow your violent warpath, and risk their lives for your cause? What happens to them if they do either, or do nothing and ignore you? These are the questions you ask not “well why is everyone bitching about black man sucks”. - not because powerful funny black man sucks, but because his inaction has us asking all the questions above so much sooner than anyone would have liked.
You would prob enjoy Jon Stewart’s “is this fascism?” video.
Its like having a permenant place nobody ever looks at with no rules.
Way too convienient to get rid of.
Probably more a decision of the intelligence communities more than the military.
Same they they did for the other concentration camp which is currently being exterminated.
Yes, arson.
I dunno man…are you? I can’t afford to go to prison. I have three kids that rely on me for sustenance and a house. Nothing that Trump administration does is going to make life more difficult for me currently. I’m emailing politicians, trying to make good points online, and protest. I think that’s all I can do right now. Now, if my family is threatened, or I can no longer provide for my family, then we’ll talk again.
I think we’re starting to see in real time why nobody stopped Hitler either.
And the US is about 28 times larger than Germany, making it even harder for people to travel to a focal point of power to resist.
Joining an armed resistance has a high chance of death. Turns out a lot of people like being alive. I can see why other countries saw a bit more resistance too, when your country voted for it there is probably an impression many support it
Yup. I’ve seen in my own family. Started in November with the anti Nazi talk. Then around Christmas the Biden whataboutisms started: Yeah but Biden is actually doing stuff Trump started so they are both bad. Now I am hearing the same points @alteon made. Anything to keep from doing the right thing and fight fascism bc I have an early meeting, the kids have soccer practice, well I don’t see any of it so its not as bad as the internet makes it sound, blah blah blah.
The people in power that are supposed to stop this aren’t. AOC is trying to rally people, but not sure how effective it’s going to be yet.
Anything you do as an individual is likely to fail and only make things way, way worse. So you tell me man…what should I do that I’m not already doing?
Would your consider your family threatened when we have inflation at obscene, never-before-seen rates?
Honestly? Probably not.
Will it suck? Absolutely, but me and my wife make great money and just consolidated a bunch of our stuff to buy our forever home. We’re liquid probably $100k, and that’s not even touching retirement finances or other investments. I 100% want to help where I can with protesting and organizing stuff, but I won’t be in a state where I’m willing to be Luigi 2.0 anytime soon. Like. Even if we were to both lose our jobs, we’re comfortable for at least 2-3 years before we have to start worrying.
Congratulations on your success. I hope what’s coming doesn’t touch you too badly. I mean it.
Nothing. It ain’t on us to fix shit. Our side of things has been broken since before any of us were born.
Nothing that Trump administration does is going to make life more difficult for me currently.
Woof. I remember saying that back in 2017. Four years later…
Yes, I already did, even before this particular news broke out…
I tried to individually tell every one I know IRL (which is not too many ppl sadly), basically told every single one of them to consider back-up career options… There are a couple of 1-year exchange students from Europe in my floor and I have not-subtly hinted at them to make contingency plans for PhD training back home. I’ve been following the news very carefully recently so I can share relevant items as soon as possible… The people need to know. I’ve even considered making know-your-rights printouts before they claimed they’re doing an ICE raid in Chicago, but realized how little resources I have for that… I absolutely will do something. Not sure what it is but I can’t see society go this way.
I just feel bad that as a non-US citizen there is only so little I can do… I don’t even know if I could join a protest without being considered for deportation at this rate. Am planning my leave as well so there’s that.
Funny incident, I blurted out to my family 2-months ago that Trump will probably build a concentration camp and was told to shut the F up… Murphy’s law I suppose
Obama didn’t, even with a supermajority in the Senate. This is the problem with me liberalism taking over the D party. Trump certainly isn’t going to.
Obama didn’t open a concentration camp
He allowed extra-judicial torture practices there against UNHR and any humanitarian objections. He didn’t do what Trump is going to, but he allowed it to normalize and continue despite the power to stop it, and makes it less of a leap for a right wing freak to make something like this happen. It’s not a “thanks Obama”, but people down voting holding Obama to account for keeping it open want Dems to be blameless despite complicity in the neoliberal bullshit dating back to Clinton as the party swung for corporate interests and abandoned their humanity.
This has nothing to do with the democrats. Sit down you propagandist.
If you truly haven’t connected the dots as to why the slide to the right of Democrats enabled Trump to win, and win again, I pity you.
Throwing labels at me because you can’t refute the point is always the mark of someone on the correct side. Rest easy!
Now y’all care about gitmo?
Fuck off with your performative bullshit.
Conservatives will say anything. To be clear, I mean you.
Nothing is more performative then your dumb ass using the weakest argument imaginable to defend trump opening a concentration camp.
I am not your straw man. You will not knock me down.
no, i’m not the government.
