If you asked me like 4-8 years ago, I felt kind of neutral about things. Now I don’t feel an ounce bit patriotic or proud enough to even state that I’m an American.
Now, when I see an American flag around, I see it as a symbol of fascism, anti-intelluctialism, neo-nazism, and late-stage capitalism amongst other things. If there’s an American flag flying on a car, I can totally see that person possessing at least one of those qualities.
I suppose it’s good to be self aware and not blindly feel patriotic and ignoring that your country needs improvement.
I don’t know what I’m expecting in the comments here but just thought I would get this off my chest.
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A German comedian put this quite well: Only in a patriotically heated hothouse can racism/nationalism thrive
And a German philosopher said: “The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen.”
No, but to make a post about how “cringe and icky” you feel is pretty fuckin cringe.
It also doesn’t make a ton of sense to be fine with America through the duration of Trump’s first presidency (which started 8 years ago and ended 4 years ago) but to feel icky for his second presidency??
Which also implies that Biden was the turning point for your loss of patriotism.
Something tells me this might be the first election you were old enough to vote in. And if that’s the case, I hate to break it to ya but each election season is always better than the next.
I didn’t get the chance to vote in the last two presidential terms that’s correct. I also had political views back then. The difference here is we reelected someone we knew was garbage, and not only that but a threat to our democracy.
Before that, I could see the flag as a symbol of hope, and a symbol that if there is an inherent goodness in all of us, maybe, a slim majority of us can vote for someone less bad than the orange rapist.
After the election, if I had a flag to wave, I would rather pull it down or fly it upside down out of embarrassment. We truly are a nation run by idiots.
Upside down flag means distress. Seems pretty valid right now
Don’t forget who took that from you.
It was never a flag with lots of good behind it, it’s one of the least deserving of patriotism flags. And the fact that it is so heavily used, just like patriotism, lying about history in schools, the military shit is all extremely fucked up. It’s brainwashing on a disgusting level.
On a semi-related note, I’m glad that Superman’s motto was updated to “Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow” back in 2021.
Oh god, I didn’t think of how awful that old motto would read now.
Poor Captain America is fucked, it’s part of his name.
Same, I just feel kind of gross now when I see it. Sad as I still love my country, just not what it’s doing now.
youre not alone. the american flag makes me sick. overt patriotism has been coopted by magats, and its hard to see it any other way.
if someone feels the need to wave the american flag, i feel the need to be suspicious of your lack of empathy and possible fascist undertones. sorry.
Yeah but if I see an Australian or New Zealander fly their flag I’m like “they’re probably chill”. If I see someone waving a bit american flag I would think they were going to shoot me and call me the n word
Here’s an alternative take to upset the boring consensus here.
Patriotic pride (not necessarily nationalism) is the inevitable product of social cohesion. A society which is cohesive is one where people look at strangers and see them as members of their tribe - essentially, as extended family. It’s a society where citizens are therefore willing to pay high taxes to fund those strangers’ welfare benefits, for example. No welfare state has ever arisen in a country without this essential quality. Almost by definition, social cohesion is closely correlated with patriotism. In the world’s most redistributive countries - I’m talking about Scandinavia, of course - you will see more national flags than you might think given their “leftist” reputation. In Sweden, ordinary houses sometime have flagpoles in the garden, I’ve seen them. None of this is coincidental.
Patriotism can be a dangerous slippery slope, yes. But it’s also what empowers strong states and collective action. Nobody wants a patriotism-free world more than the billionaires that everyone hates here. Be careful what you wish for.
It’s a good step to consider patriotic ideology as prelude to fascism and tribalism. Welcome in the world of great oportunities, free from borders and labels put with force in your mind. Welcome there, human!
You tell me, man. Over here in Brazil, seeing a national flag outside the context of “it’s world cup match day” generally signals whoever is flying it is a fascist twat.
Dang, that’s interesting. Thank you for the context. (-an embarrassed american)
Fun little anecdote – One of my neighbours is one such twat. They used to fly a Brazilian flag from their window.
Then Jan 8 2023 came and went, and the “patriots” failed to manifest a CIA-backed military coup in our country by camping outside army boot camps (because the CIA right now has other problems and doesn’t care to fund right wing dictatorships in Latin America, and our military does not like to work and will never move their asses, for or against any cause, without a fat paycheck telling them to) – And they became disillusioned.
So they replaced the Brazilian flag, with the flag of SE Palmeiras, a soccer team. Which is hilarious because Palmeiras has history with the original fascists, like the Italian, Mussolini-before-he-was-hung ones.
As a German, I feel you.
The greatest lie the Right ever told that the Left bought hook line and sinker was that they were the ones who represented America.
The thing is, while the US has it’s horrible history and present, the people who fought for the ideals we’re supposed to have are also just as much American as any conservative asshole. MLK Jr was American. Frederick Douglass was American. John Brown was American. Mister Rogers was American. Abolitionists. Suffragists. Union fighters. People fighting for fixing the problems, righting the wrongs, holding our country accountable for it’s own ideals, are just as much a part of that flag.
The assholes laid claim to that flag and the people who are aware of the problems, who have legitimate concerns with the bullshit this country has done and continues to do, accidentally let them.
Being an American is supposed to be about learning to be better and doing the next right thing.
This requires introspection and critically assessing our system to ascertain whether or not it’s lifting us - and the world - up. This noble, inclusive, empathetic approach (which we fail at all the time but we often try) is literally impossible for conservatives.
So then the question is, what should the flag represent, the people or the ideals? If it’s the ideals, then some real shitheads are trying to steal your flag.
The flag represents whatever we are, and right now we suck.
I agree with this with every piece of my heart. I’d like more than anything for American non-maga’s to take back the American flag (and the gadsden for that matter). Let them have their maga and thin blue line, but ceding the American flag to them is essentially admitting that you don’t want to be a part of this country, which only makes maga’s feel more comfortable about labeling you as an “other”. I know, I grew up in a conservative family, and still live in a conservative state. It’s a self-exacerbating problem.
I can sympathize with those that really are done with the country, but I’m not ready to give up yet. We can flip the script. Pride marches should be flooded with American flags. Civil rights too. Force conservatives to come to terms with the fact that they’re no more American than the trans-commie over there waving the big-ass American flag. If we’re so lucky to make it through this and come out the other side a better country, I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to changing the flag. But right now I believe it makes strategic sense to claim the 50-stars. Fly your other flags with it if you don’t want to be confused for a conservative, then you’re essentially projecting “hey, I’m American too, dumbass!”.
TL;DR: the American left needs stop being so self-concious about what waving an American flag says about them and realize that a.) non-maga’s waving the American flag can be a powerful propaganda tool, and b.) they can take it back.
🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 NAZI AMERICANS FUCK OFF 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Team america, world police
We suck.
And don’t forget, ACAB.
No. The
Great Value Bars and StarsStars and Stripes make me feel nothing but shame right now.Where I live it’s hard to see someone flying an American flag and not immediately assume they’re a bigot.
Magats did to the American flag what they think gay people did to the rainbow.
yeah its like the flag itself. its design. its very nice and meaningful. The folks who go all boner on it makes it like eww. jeesh memorial is just around the corner. mini flags laying around as refuse along with flag plates and napkins. Doing things like that to the flag used to be considered disrespectful. Its like omg this guy burned the flag to symbolize our government no doing things in the way intended by the founders but lol mustard stains on old glory, fuck yeah!
Even as a kid, I never understood how the USA flag could be a symbol of “freedom” while conscription exists. Today it has gone from a generally indifferent lie to borderline offensive
