If you asked me like 4-8 years ago, I felt kind of neutral about things. Now I don’t feel an ounce bit patriotic or proud enough to even state that I’m an American.
Now, when I see an American flag around, I see it as a symbol of fascism, anti-intelluctialism, neo-nazism, and late-stage capitalism amongst other things. If there’s an American flag flying on a car, I can totally see that person possessing at least one of those qualities.
I suppose it’s good to be self aware and not blindly feel patriotic and ignoring that your country needs improvement.
I don’t know what I’m expecting in the comments here but just thought I would get this off my chest.
No. I saw a lady driving with two USA flags on the sides of her car yesterday. I assume this is her alternative to having a Trump sticker, since that shit would likely engender a negative response in the Bay Area (specifically Oakland / Berkeley). She just looked dumb as fuck. I was embarrassed for her.
Don’t be ashamed to be ashamed of your country. If you’re also a USA citizen, we have a lot to be ashamed about. But also don’t give up. Fight back. Don’t let them slow-roll to victory by causing us to go numb.
No, but to make a post about how “cringe and icky” you feel is pretty fuckin cringe.
It also doesn’t make a ton of sense to be fine with America through the duration of Trump’s first presidency (which started 8 years ago and ended 4 years ago) but to feel icky for his second presidency??
Which also implies that Biden was the turning point for your loss of patriotism.
Something tells me this might be the first election you were old enough to vote in. And if that’s the case, I hate to break it to ya but each election season is always better than the next.
I didn’t get the chance to vote in the last two presidential terms that’s correct. I also had political views back then. The difference here is we reelected someone we knew was garbage, and not only that but a threat to our democracy.
Before that, I could see the flag as a symbol of hope, and a symbol that if there is an inherent goodness in all of us, maybe, a slim majority of us can vote for someone less bad than the orange rapist.
After the election, if I had a flag to wave, I would rather pull it down or fly it upside down out of embarrassment. We truly are a nation run by idiots.
Upside down flag means distress. Seems pretty valid right now
Don’t forget who took that from you.
It was never a flag with lots of good behind it, it’s one of the least deserving of patriotism flags. And the fact that it is so heavily used, just like patriotism, lying about history in schools, the military shit is all extremely fucked up. It’s brainwashing on a disgusting level.
On a semi-related note, I’m glad that Superman’s motto was updated to “Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow” back in 2021.
Oh god, I didn’t think of how awful that old motto would read now.
Poor Captain America is fucked, it’s part of his name.
Same, I just feel kind of gross now when I see it. Sad as I still love my country, just not what it’s doing now.
youre not alone. the american flag makes me sick. overt patriotism has been coopted by magats, and its hard to see it any other way.
if someone feels the need to wave the american flag, i feel the need to be suspicious of your lack of empathy and possible fascist undertones. sorry.
Yeah but if I see an Australian or New Zealander fly their flag I’m like “they’re probably chill”. If I see someone waving a bit american flag I would think they were going to shoot me and call me the n word
No, you shouldn’t, because nearly half the country voted against Trump. It wasn’t enough, but it certainly indicates a significant portion of the country opposes him and the ideologies behind him. What we, as Americans, should be ashamed of is our pathetic educational system, which is at the root of this problem.
Both Republicans and Democrats are at the core of this problem. Republicans don’t want any public education at all and Democrats have polluted public education with Far Left propaganda that has fueled conservative rage and helped Far Right people divide the nation. Race and gender issues have eclipsed class issues, which are the real problems of the nation. As much as LGBT and racial groups deserve their particular rights, the real divisions at the heart of America are between the middle- and working-classes and the ultra-rich. Corporations are the prime devil that need to be taken down, not White men. Plenty of White men are suffering at the hands of corporations and they need to be woken up. The most recent election has shown that non-Whites are just as susceptible to Trump’s charms as anyone else. We need to stop focusing on superficial divisors such as race and gender and start focusing on class divisors much more.
As an anti-aurhoritarian I’ve been of the opinion that that we’ve been an authoritarian hell hole for pretty much all of my life. Yes Trump is a fascist but the government is also heavy-handed when Democrats are in power. If you’re encouraged that almost half of the votes went to authoritarian Harris, I’d say you shouldn’t be. She wasn’t a leftist, honestly I think of her as a little bit fascist too, just less ironically puritan.
You know that two things can be bad, but one is worse than the other right?
Democrats have polluted public education with Far Left propaganda
I’m not familiar with that. Please cite a reputable source.
Less than a third of eligible voters is not half the country. The winning vote was “nobody” if you include all non-voters. I’d bet if “nobody” was on the ballot they would get even more votes. I wonder why they don’t offer that option? Because they have decided that you must be ruled. There is no alternative according to the ruling class. Convenient how that works out.
The US hasn’t had more than 2/3 voter turnout for over 100 years. This was the second-highest turnout in that time. That is abysmal.
You can blame those non-voters till you’re blue in the face, but the reality is that the US system doesn’t get people to vote, because people hate the options, and that is a perennial problem.
Do USian school children still talk to that bit of fabric every morning - or is that a myth? From an outsider’s perspective I always put the US just below, uh, post-Weimar republic Germany in the excessive flag club chart placings. Always seemed excessively jingoistic.
Best of luck with your country…
Yes it still goes on. I live in a very liberal city with a ton of diversity bordering Chicago and our schools still do it here. However, they don’t care if you participate or not - that is your personal choice.
I have been substitute teaching and I’ve noticed that not many kids recite it. They just listen to it being recited over the morning announcements.
I like the way your school works where you can chant along if you want - I remember having to lip-sync the “Lord’s prayer” (daily bread speech) as a kid so as not to get a whooping from a zealot in the staff room. Crazy times.
Best of luck to you, your kids and your city - you’re literally educating the generation that might have to dig your whole country out from the nightmare it appears to be building. Look after yourselves…
I’ll tell this story as often as it’s relevant - I was made to recite the pledge of alliegance in school at 5 years old. I wasn’t a citizen, I should have had no reason to swear fealty, and our family was denied green cards, so the allegiance was not reciprocated.
Kind of dodged a bullet if I’m honest, but still, I remember it verbatim to this day, because I was indoctrinated when I was too small and naive to know any better. Not reciting it was not an option I was presented with. I don’t think anybody in charge would’ve thought twice about it either.
Damn, that’s a rough and crazy story but, like you say, looking at it now I agree you probably did dodge a bullet. At least you get to see the empire fall from the outside.
What you’re feeling is rationality. Nationalism is an extension of basic primal instinct humans have developed to protect their tribe, but it is only detrimental to modern life.
No, you’re right to feel that way. While most Americans aren’t terrible people, enough of us are that we allowed fascism to take over and we will have to carry that shame with us for the rest of our lives. It Happened Here.
No, you’re right to feel that way.
Agree.
While most Americans aren’t terrible people,
Hard disagree.
enough of us are that we allowed fascism to take over and we will have to carry that shame with us for the rest of our lives. It Happened Here.
Well…yeah. That’s a symptom of the problem which is why I had to hard disagree with you.
However you feel is not “wrong”, and in this case pretty understandable.
Here in Australia I don’t have a problem with the flag itself, but there seems to be a strong correlation with people putting flags on their cars and being racist assholes.
“All men are created equal”
IS SLAVE STATE
Always has been
Look for the helpers
I’d say the only reason you didn’t feel that before was ignorance, the American flag is NOT a thing of good. It has been fucked up from the very beginning. And to us who are not Americans, it’s very obvious how much your country absolutely forces brainwashing of all citizens from the second they’re born. American patriotism and love for the flag etc. is in the same way that for example a priest shows how much they’re against homosexuality and other sins like it then they’re found with child-p (I don’t want to fully write it) and stuff like that. It’s the school bully that screams about how cool and strong they are, when they’re exactly the opposite.
The same happens in Spain if you are leftist since the civil war, even before maybe.
