IDK, business people tend to make a LOT of money from successful artists, so if anything, they should encourage this.
That’s why we have STEAM now :)
There’s been a push in higher education and professional markets for a STEAM education paradigm over STEM. Especially when you consider that there’s a ton of crossover between tradition STEM education and arts in modern day professionals (User Experience relies on all 5 domains for delivering truly great UX for example).
Damn, they got to him before he could get it out.
Curse you, lizard overlords!Throw marketing and HR majors in there with business majors as the triumvirate of just literally evil and useless people, and I’m on board.
I say this as a person with an Econ degree, and another Poli Sci degree, that I got simultaneously.
Bach Sci, Bach Arts, respectively.
Not quite as ‘artistic’ as something like music or visual artistry of some kind, but I can say that a.BA in Poli Sci involves a lot of learning how to be the… persuasive kind of a creative writer.
So yeah, I’m kind of a hybrid multi-class build, so just like when you do that in DnD, 90% of people are somewhere between annoyed by or confused by this, all the way up to just outright hating you for ‘being a try-hard’ or ‘having both a broad and deep skillset, and significant general understanding of relevant context in many areas’.
Ok lol, snark aside…
We Econ people are not all evil, in fact most of us fucking despise business majors, as business is what you switch your Econ major to if you’re too stupid to actually understand advanced math, modelling, statistical analysis, as well as actual long term business strategy and non myopic market analysis… as well as usually at least some coding proficiency in something like R or at least Python libs geared toward data crunching.
But somehow these idiot assholes end up being our bosses and we usually end up being their subordinate data analysts of some kind, basically because they master the arcane power of corpospeak, aka, professional gaslighting.
Likewise, accountants, actuaries?
Those are actual real degrees, you have to memorize an utterly astounding amount of essentially arbitrary laws and regulations, and if you go full actuary, some of the most complex statistics on earth, in some cases literally more complex and mind bending than what many theoretical physicists have to learn.
Anyway, most data oriented nerds are at least mildly autistic and realize they are generally not so good with people skills, nor the visually artistic kind of creativity… but we are generally self-aware of this, and realize that other people with other kinds of intelligences are needed if we want our data and analysis to actually be listened to.
Finally: HR and Marketing majors are all narcissistic sociopaths who are also too stupid to complete their psychology degrees, which they really only ever pursued to become more skilled sociopaths.
… Uh there, oops, I may have just written at least part of OP’s essay.
EDIT: Ok, apparently this may be worth clarifying due to the presence of some ChatGPT diarrhea in this thread, but uh, the above words were all produced spontaneously by an all natural, organic, genuine human being, in an astoundingly more energy efficient and non exploitative manner, that didn’t require the violation of the privacy, consent, and also basically IP rights of every human that has ever existed.
Shocking that someone with a major that requires lots of writing would have similarities with model that simply copies the writing style with the largest sample size.
Your essay needs more Queen. “…most data oriented nerds are at least mildly autistic” might be a bit of a strong statement but they’re at the very least more socially aligned than the rest of the populace.
E: inclusivity
Oh no, I failed a purity test by not being inclusive enough, but also it simultaneously was not edgy nor controversial enough at the same time!
I am autistic. I am speaking both from personal experience and also personally knowing a bunch of other autists I went to university with.
So uh, misfire on the inclusivity purity test there, unless you’re gonna call me a self hating autist, in which case, ok lol.
You’re really gonna tell the autistic guy that he sounds like a robot, a computer model of text generation, you know kind of a massively rude thing to do to an autist, who gets to hear that dehumanizing shit their whole life… you’re gonna tell me that and then also critique me for not being inclusive enough, to autistic people.
Amazing.
This doesn’t ‘need’ Queen, it is meant to be my authentic personal opinion, I do not identify as or with Queen, or use Queen mannerisms or phrasings. Took me a long time to learn that anyone that demands I mask for them isn’t someone worth much of my time.
Jumping from doing … some incredibly vague, unspecified, but nonetheless structural writing critique… directly into a totally subjective, personal preferences critique of the content of the writing, seemingly without even realizing you’ve done this…
Pretty much means you either aren’t well versed in English, or you’re intentionally conflating the two in bad faith.
I dare you to find any ChatGPT or similar LLM that naturally outputs written content that simply has as many … as I arguably overuse, consistently writes compound sentences with as many clauses as I use routinely, not to mention suggests intonation the way I do with bold italics.
Uh, um, in conclusion, in this essay I have shown that you have no clue what you’re talking about.
EDIT: Oh no, did HR send you?
My first statement was sarcasm. If you learned to write in university you would learn to write in an academic style. Since most people write more in university than the rest of their career there’s simply more writing with that style available. Since that’s all available through journals or more insidious sources it’s likely training fodder for AIs. Therefore someone’s writing being misinterpreted for AI likely just means they’ve used some academic style. I only commented on it because you brought it up in your first comment. I believe I’m in agreement with your original sentiment that it’s a silly notion(?)
The “E:” means “edit” since I edited my post to change the wording from worse language to something i felt was more appropriate.
The “needs more Queen” refers how OP uses the members of the band as examples to make their point. I’m intending to contrast that with your write-up which does not share a similar pop-culture example approach but hinges instead on your personal experience. You said your comment could be a good start to the essay requested in the replies in the image. That is what i was meaning to respond to with this critique. I believe the replies in the image wanted more pop-culture based references.
None of it’s a purity test and the last part is just my opinion.
Shocking that someone with a major that requires lots of writing would have similarities with model that simply copies the writing style with the largest sample size.
My first statement was sarcasm.
Who is the subject you are referring to?
I… am assuming it is me, because you replied to my comment.
If you were not referring to me… why did you reply to this comment of mine?
Did you mean to reply to a different comment I made, where I went into more detail about writing structures and LLM output?
But also, I am the only person that’s explicitly mentioned my own major… in this entire thread.
???
…
Since most people write more in university than the rest of their career there’s simply more writing with that style available. Since that’s all available through journals or more insidious sources it’s likely training fodder for AIs. Therefore someone’s writing being misinterpreted for AI likely just means they’ve used some academic style.
Oh, ok, you are misinformed.
No, no, LLMs are fed 99.9% of training data from all kinds of random internet comments from the entire internet, reddit, intstagram, facebook, tiktok, everyone’s blog they forgot they even had 6 years ago, stackoverflow, truth social, twitter, youtube comments, wikipedia, etc etc.
They thus learn to emulate the average writing style of the average internet user, by default, albeit with some safety rails put on them manually.
They absolutely do not write in the style of academic journals, unless you specifically prompt them to write in such a manner, or ask them for precise details about data (or use terms and phrases) that essentialy only exists in academic journals.
…
So… yeah, that’s why I assumed you were referencing me… because your sarcastic comment doesn’t make any sense as a sarcastic comment, because the thing its being sarcastic about is built on a false premise.
Also, because you specifically mentioned a writing style of a particular kind of major the OP doesn’t mention this concept, and as best I can tell, neither does anyone else in this whole thread.
…
Also also… even if your idea that LLMs write in the style of academic writings… the only actual LLM generated text in this whole thread… reads like a high school assignment essay… it doesn’t at all read like something that would be published in an academic, peer reviewed journal, nor even really like much writing that would get better than a 2.5ish out of 4.0 as assignments in a Uni… it reads like middle to high schooler writing.
So your ‘sarcasm’ also doesn’t make any sense in that way either, because that is another, seperate but also present false premise that the sarcasm would have to derive from to… make sense…
Unless you are referring to me, and what I just wrote, in the comment you replied to.
…
Well, I apologize for going off on you when you didn’t mean to insult me, but hopefully you can at least understand why I interpreted what you said as a personal attack.
Yeah, I missed the Queen reference being more directly related to the actual OP, I am at this point more used to celebrities and Zoomers using Queen as basically to mean a person who thinks very, very highly of themselves, has a considerable sense of entitlement and is feminine presenting.
And I was so worked up at this point I interpreted everything else as an attack.
(Ahem. Yep. Autism confirmed lol.)
So, yeah, I appreciate the explanation, I again apologize for blowing up on you.I can see now that you absolutely did not mean anything as a criticism of memor my own writing.
Your initial statement was, and still is quite confusing to me, but I appreciate that you took the time to explain what you were trying to say, and hopefully you now understand a bit of my thought process as you kindly explained your own to me.
Somewhat ironically, my intial confused interpretation of what you said you did manage to evoke a more catty, venomous and snarky response out of me, so perhaps that’s me being a bit of the Queen I wrongfully thought you wanted me to be, lol.
The melodeath metal band Insomnium didn’t act in the Covid pandemy, because their guitarrist was working in the creation of vaccines.
it’s fucked up the number of amazingly talented metal musicians who have to keep down day jobs… mostly in stem.
shoutout to the tech death guys specifically, who keep being in programming.
Insomnium is one of my most favorite bands, but certainly its hard for an nordic Metalband in a country where are at least 5-6 good Metalbands in every little village.
Have to? Many metalheads are dorks and want to do these gigs.
I almost had that path, except I had almost abandoned playing the guitar one time due to a multitude of reasons, and haven’t fully recovered since. Now I work as a desk clerk so I can chase my gamedev ambitions, could not find a better one due to discrimination against me.
I went to a London university. Most the departments were essentially as diverse as the population, but business undergrads were 80% black British, and everyone knows they hate queen. Is this the conspiracy we’ve been warned about?
(This is very clearly a joke I hope and I have utter respect for everyone.)
I fully agree. But once those who should be business majors enter a field everything about it gets worse.
A slightly nicer way to put this is profit incentives frequently cause negative externalities.
I find fault in the reasoning, it’s probably the bussiness majors that profited the most from any band ever by pocketing half of whatever money they made.
They make more profit from monetizing water
The business major… reaps no reward from art and science… thus must weaken us (Art/STEM) to stay ahead
The “fault in reasoning” you describe is saying the same thing: there’s no reward from art and science for business majors, so they must instead gain from (Art/STEM) by weakening them. Capitalize on profit and extract reward from (Art/STEM), because business majors themselves, can’t extract reward by means of the original process
*** This is not an endorsement of my own opinion. I’m talking out my ass and have no relevant sources to back my statement, nor stake in any claim. Just typing words off the dome and trying to sound coherent for possible discussive-hypotheticals
So they are the root cause of all evil
Splash in finance and you get Offspring
in this essay I
TW
In Canada we call it STEAM now. Because where the hell do you think design comes from?
In Europe we have GOG instead
G - science technology engineering maths
O - ond
G - gumanitieswhy is this so fucking funny
G - gumanities
Or as we like to call it, GNU/Gumanities.
GNU is not umanities.
Or, as I’ve taken to calling them, GNU plus Gumanities.
I do art, btw
My subjective interpretation of STEM is “degrees you need to know calculus for”. They’re all math heavy, with precise answers. While the arts are certainly important, I just don’t see how they fit that motif. What is this supposed to accomplish?
Art is about analyzing the questions, design is about analyzing the solutions. Many engineers I’ve met get wrapped up in the process and fail to address the actual issues.
This guy is the textbook example. His projects always go down deadends and lose scope. He would definitely be better off with some CAD (Cardboard Aided Design) before he runs off to his CNC mill with a $200 block of aluminum.
I don’t think I’ve had anything calculus related in my biology degree.
So THAT’S why a biologist had to reinvent calculus in 1994:
“A Mathematical Model for the Determination of Total Area Under Glucose Tolerance and Other Metabolic Curves”, Mary M. Tai, Diabetes Care, 1994, 17, 152–154
Guess biology isn’t STEM then, sorry.
But in all seriousness, calculus (and by extension differential equations) is super common in bio. Reaction rates, stable population sizes, micro and macro. I’d be surprised if you never came across it.
Which is why all the bio papers are n=2
You need calculus for vibe coding?
Vibe coding without any prior knowledge is just a catastrophe waiting to happen. Vibe coding with prior knowledge just makes you realize how dumb the AI is the moment you try anything else besides throwing a website together.
I agree.
The more wild version I saw of STEAM had Agriculture as the A. I also felt that was redundant since modern agriculture involves a lot of science (biology) and engineering (equipment).
So I’d that just all college degrees besides business?
Yea. All the real collegiate degrees and the bullshit degree.
Wasn’t STEAM supposed to be something specific, not a replacement of STEM? Idk, I just know the acronym because Angela Collier did a video.
GabeN I guess ?
I’ve been waiting 12 years for this fuggin essay
So, how can society overcome the rift?
Destroy business. Cast it back into the hellfires from which it came.
How do you organize society then?
Business does not equate logistics.
Edit: business leverages many useful fields ,like logistics, actuary/risk assessment, and public relations, to do one, very useless task: generate profit.
Yes. How should all of that be done?
What does that question even mean? How should logistics be done?
Spare me the Socratic method and get to your real point.
I have no point. I just want to know how those things should be organized if not as businesses. USSR had businesses, so to work without them, something else must be used to link everything together.
like logistics, actuary/risk assessment, and public relations
Your callout to the USSR belies the lack of point you professed to, as well as your astounding lack of imagination. The US Post Office is not a business and yet yearly goes about the process of organizing national mail delivery. There are plenty of organizations that operate in the abscence of a profit motive.
Hell, people could do all those things – actuarial work, operations planning, etc – for simple altruism. I’m a misanthrope and even I remember such things exist.
Socialism
Sieze the means of production
Do you need a middle man with every transaction?
Not for every, but how do you handle the transactions to design, build and operate a mobile phone?
Does an engineer need an intermediary between them and the designer?
No.
But that doesn’t scale. How should society organize for mobile phones?
Industrial engineering/systems engineering. Definitely not something a business major has any business doing their porky fingers into
Do we need multi international corporations that rival empires? There’s a lot of options to address scale depending on choices we make, the communists say central planning is the answer, some anarchists say syndicates can fix this. You could create circular economies that return ewaste to the fold then redistribute the new product. There’s a lot more options than you think.
Ask korea, they have organized their society without middlemen, not even taxes
(A thousand apologies for bringing Chat GPT into this assignment, but, well, I couldn’t help myself.)
In this essay I will explore how the artificial divide between Arts and STEM disciplines has been perpetuated, the consequences of this separation, and the immense potential that lies in their collaboration. Using the example of Queen—a band whose members’ diverse academic backgrounds fueled their creative genius—I will argue that the intersection of artistic imagination and scientific rigor is not only possible, but essential for innovation and progress. Furthermore, I will examine the role that societal structures, particularly those influenced by business interests, have played in maintaining this divide, and how overcoming it could empower individuals and communities alike.
First, let us consider the origins of this divide. Historically, the “Two Cultures” debate, popularized by C.P. Snow in the mid-20th century, framed the arts and sciences as fundamentally incompatible. This narrative has been reinforced by educational systems that require students to choose between creative and analytical paths early in their academic careers. As a result, students often internalize the belief that they must be either “artistic” or “scientific,” rarely both. This false dichotomy not only limits personal growth but also stifles the kind of interdisciplinary thinking that leads to groundbreaking achievements.
Queen’s story challenges this narrative. Brian May’s background in astrophysics, Roger Taylor’s training in dentistry, Freddie Mercury’s art school experience, and John Deacon’s expertise in electronics all contributed to the band’s unique sound and stage presence. Their music is a testament to the power of combining technical skill with artistic vision—an approach that has resonated with millions and stood the test of time.
But why does this divide persist? Here, I return to the business major, a metaphor for the systems and structures that benefit from keeping Arts and STEM apart. In a world where creativity and technical knowledge are siloed, those who control the means of production and distribution—often with business backgrounds—can more easily exploit both groups. By fostering competition rather than collaboration, they ensure that neither side realizes its full potential, maintaining the status quo and their own position of power.
The consequences of this separation are profound. When artists and scientists work in isolation, society misses out on innovations that require both creative insight and technical expertise. From medical breakthroughs inspired by artistic anatomy studies to technological advances driven by aesthetic design, history is full of examples where collaboration has led to extraordinary results.
In conclusion, the supposed rift between Arts and STEM is not a natural divide, but a constructed barrier that serves the interests of a select few. By recognizing our shared potential and fostering interdisciplinary collaboration, we can unlock new possibilities and create a more vibrant, innovative, and equitable society. Just as Queen’s members combined their diverse talents to create music that transcends genres, so too can we bridge the gap between art and science to achieve greatness together.
apologies not accepted, the hounds have been released
Somehow it feels like this whole essay could be summarized in a single paragraph of, say, 3 proper sentences
Yes, that is correct, this is the basic 5 paragraph small essay structure:
Intro paragraph - I am going to say blah blah.
Body paragraphs (usually 3, can be more) - each particular point of blah blah, explained in a self contained manner, that doesn’t reference or build upon anything in the other body paragraphs.
Conclusion paragraph - I said blah blah.
This is a writing style typically taught to middle schoolers, 20 years ago, before we spent 20 years passing every failing student onto the next grade becauase otherwise the school will shut down.
It is meant to be an introduction to the concept of writing in a longer form than just answering a single question with basically one paragraph.
It is not meant to be good, compelling, moving or engaging writing… it is meant to be the bridge between basic and intermediate levels of literacy, to give young humans more practice with stringing more sentences together.
Writing in this manner almost always can be boiled down to maybe a couple of sentences, basically you could just rewrite the conclusion with a bit more detail, and there ya go.
Replying to my own comment, I think the best tell that this is AI generated is the — character. There’s not even a key on the keyboard for that. Alt-0151 (on the keypad) is the only way I know how to get it. Aside from that, I pity the teacher who has to grade this type of slop. But then, I guess grading high-school essays has never been a highlight of the job.
The emdash is a dead giveaway, but its mostly the high school level writing style.
It is astonishingly uncreative and simplistic with sentence structure, it just directly regurgitates the points from its prompt it was specifically directed to address, there’s no clever or compelling phrasing or larger metaphor, there’s no personality or expressiveness, willingness to say something maybe a bit edgy or controversial, very neutered and bland writing style… and there’s no consecutive introduction of, then expanding on or synthesis of concepts, which are continually used after being explained and synthesized, progressively… instead, all the references are just mentioned, explained, addressed, discarded, onto the next one, like so many bullet points that need to be fluffed up to hit a word count.
Finally… did you intentionally prompt it to emulate the ‘in this essay i will…’ ‘self contained, non referential body paragraphs’ ‘in conclusion, here’s a few sentences that could have been the entire essay’ … did you intetionally tell it to mimic this extremely basic writing style?
Or did it just… do all of that on its own, like the mean average of five million highschool sophomore book reports?
I literally just prompted it with “Please finish this essay” and then typed in what justqueenthoughts had posted. And yeah, I think it followed along in the style of the prompt reasonably well, but didn’t really add anything interesting. Which is no surprise, that’s what LLMs do. Point it in a direction and it will supply an approximation of the mean in the training data that applies.
I have to admit, though, I hadn’t heard of the “Two Cultures” debate, popularized by C.P. Snow.
i think macos inserts those automatically if you do three dashes.
its also on phone keyboards, at least on iphone, you can hold the dash key and select the long dash: —
same for the ellipsis, which a lot of people cite as a proof something was written with AI, but iphones (and other phones too, probably) insert them automatically when you type 3 dots…
Libre (and ethnic cleansing of Palestine supporting Microsoft) Office does, too.
I’m sure word does the same.
There is a key for — on my phone. Just hold down the - key and it pops up as an option. I use it all the time.
There is a key for — on my phone. Just hold down the - key and it pops up as an option — I use it all the time.
FTFY
Bro caught me slippin’
My organic chemistry professor spent a solid 30 minutes explaining the difference between an em dash and an en dash so we could use them correctly in our lab reports. Then ended his little lecture with saying “They’re in the special character menu of your word processor. Unless you’re on Mac, then I suggest googling them.”
I don’t think any of us used either dash, but I’m just sad no one called him on his BS lol
On a Mac, you can do opt+hyphen or shift+opt+hyphen, for en dash or em dash respectively.
My laptop can do the — when I press AltGr and -
I think the best tell that this is AI generated is the — character. There’s not even a key on the keyboard for that.
Then you must have a really crappy keyboard.
Tl;dr
Apology unaccepted. Have my dislike. Type — yourself next time.
/sarcasm
This may have been a remotely funny comment if OP wasn’t downvoted to oblivion.
ngl, that’s a pretty good persuasive essay. Since the OP gave the prompt, it also took creative risks with an essay topic that is original, and doesn’t just parrot the consensus opinion on a well-trodden topic.
I’d give this a really good grade up to grade 11.
Dear god I hope you aren’t a teacher, I was writing better than this in middle school.
