Is this not the reason the second amendment exists? Regards An Australian Edit: I’m not advocating for violence. More so “a well regulated militia” which could be established by protesters or Democratic Governors for genuine self defence.
people are cowards
Americans are domesticated cowards
Don’t have kids, leave the country if you can afford to.
Yes, we are. Unfortunately, I cannot afford to leave. If I could, my partner and I are unmarried, so it would be hard to find a place we could both move to, and I don’t think she’s willing to leave her dad. This stress has been at a dull roar since last November. I am not OK. I am not OK.
Have to wait until a majority wants a revolution because it’s not really ethical to do this until a strong majority wants to do it. Right now it would basically just be an insurrection.
Because law enforcement has proven that they shoot first and ask questions later if they see a threatening weapon.
I’ll give you a real answer instead of all of these other dork ass answers.
First, there aren’t enough of us to do so.
Second, you really haven’t thought through the repercussions of open carrying. Which relates to the first reason.
Open carrying puts a huge target on you. You need lots and lots of people to remain “safe”. And you won’t be safe. What are you going to do, shoot an ice agent if they try to arrest you? If that’s your goal, why open carry? Do you think that the government here is going to suddenly follow constitutional law around a citizens right to bear arms? As they’re literally illegally arresting people?
Sooner or later the amount of guns in this country is going to catch up to the ruling class but it’s not going to be at a protest.
I live in a city that’s half black, in one of several gayborhoods. I keep wondering when black and pink panthers will form and start patrolling. Probably when we get hit with our first localized stochastic terrorism incident. There’s a rainbow crosswalk that rednecks love to come do burnouts on. Tensions run high with highly conservative MAGA folks dominating the rural areas just miles from our very flammable houses with rainbow flags.
But you know what happens when the panthers start patrolling? Suddenly, gun control.
Our cops wouldn’t arrest them but the feds would probably escalate it. I am not sure how it’d play out today.
I believe open carry is illegal here in Illinois.
The meta I’ve heard is also that, if you’re gonna brandish or draw a gun, you’d better be prepared to kill with it. I’m not prepared to die shooting cops so I don’t feel like carrying. In the confusion of a gun fight I don’t think I’d have much to add by shooting anyone
Like if someone told me that the 2nd amendment just causes more shootings and doesn’t actually protect people on average I’d say yeah…
the meta youve heard js harmful.
“Brandish or draw a gun…better be prepared to kill with it.” — Normative, but the law is dead serious.
Illinois doesn’t have a standalone “brandishing” statute; threatening display can be charged as assault (often aggravated assault when a deadly weapon is involved). Separately, deadly force is only justified if you reasonably believe it’s necessary to prevent imminent death/serious bodily harm (or a forcible felony). Drawing in a way that threatens without lawful justification can be a crime.
The meta I’ve heard is also that, if you’re gonna brandish or draw a gun, you’d better be prepared to kill with it.
That’s dumb as fuck.
Glad I stopped trying to find logic in the average person.
Sounds like you’re the average person.
The only reason to open carry to a protest is as a threat. But if all you do is carry then it’s an empty threat. Don’t make threats you’re not willing to follow through on. And this is a dumb threat to try to follow through on.
Also a lot of the people who are against ICE are also against guns, which is pretty obvious. You don’t need to be embedded in us politics to know this.
You say that, but my father, when I was I growing up, told me that the only thing you’re supposed to aim a gun at is something you want to destroy.
Aiming a gun isn’t the same as brandishing or drawing it.
Maybe your father should’ve spent less time teaching you about guns and more time helping you with your English homework.
Glad I stopped trying to find logic in the average person.
Thanks for reinforcing this.
Please demonstrate this by aiming your gun at a cop and arguing that you weren’t brandishing with however many brand new holes.
Are you fucking stupid?
Aiming a gun at a cop is significantly worse than brandishing. Why would I try to argue what you’re saying unless I’m an idiot?
Oh, wait a minute. Gotta tap the sign.
Glad I stopped trying to find logic in the average person.
Also ignored. I know I won’t be able to tolerate any more drivel from someone like you.
Keep going, you’ll cum soon.
How’s that boot taste?
deleted by creator
Are you an ammosexual?
Aiming a gun isn’t the same as brandishing or drawing it.
I think it’s a distinction without a difference when you’re in a situation where both parties have firearms (and one party has the backing of the state and a monopoly on violence).
Teenagers that have toy guns are regularly shot and killed by police in America. The cops get away with murder. They’d need no justification if someone was actually carrying a real fire arm.
they don’t need justification anyway. they’ll just plant evidence if they don’t wanna be sloppy
Basically the second amendment will stop the Redcoats but will struggle against a Stryker.
Open carry is illegal in my state. I could be immediately busted for that and accomplish nothing.
Armed victims increase the cost of tyranical actions but modern warfare and thus miltia movements is not just (have weapon, intimidate or kill enemy). Honestly one of the failures of the defense of the second amendment has been the failure to modernize and includr other parts of warfare.
Honestly there is a mixture of denial in what is actually happening and support too
Because people who are legal concealed carry permit holders regularly get shot in the back by police. People who act like you can stand up to a major world military are idiots.
Don’t turn your back on the police and don’t face them alone, fucking duh. Cops are cowards, they’ll be a lot more hesitant to shoot someone if there’s a credible risk of dozens/hundreds of other people immediately shooting back.
No, that’s when the tanks come in. Have you forgotten that the police have used airplanes and bombs to subdue people? They have even destroyed entire neighborhoods. In what world do you live where you think you can win here? You will be squashed just like millions before you and the world will keep turning.
Nobody in human history has ever won a war against a dedicated insurgency. You’re historically/militarily illiterate and a coward.
If you define failed movements as either “not wars” or “not dedicated”, sure. A recent depressing example I am assuming is definitioned out of your view is Hong Kong, which is firmly under the control of mainland China. A slightly more distant example is Northern Ireland, which is firmly part of Britain.
Hong Kong was definitely not even close to a dedicated insurgency, in large part because the majority of the population appears to understand that they’re better off with China than they ever would be with the UK. China never even came close to deploying tanks and bombs either, terrible example.
Northern Ireland was much more successful while they were still fighting, then popular support for the IRA waned due to concessions on the part of the UK because they could see they weren’t going to win.
They folded under pressure, they knew they were dealing with the risk of being disappeared.
Cool story
And you stopped arguing and started making personal attacks so this conversation serves no further purpose.
No, I made a coherent historical argument and then accurately personally attacked you, you’re using the second part as an excuse to ignore the first part but we both know you’ve got no counter-argument. Like I said, fucking coward.
The answer is that people aren’t willing to die in the tens of thousands to millions when they hope to unseat the scum in 26 ot 28
No shit. That’s the problem. You bring your friends and the cops will bring their tanks. Then what, have a dick measuring contest?
… Oh wait, they’ll gun you all down and laugh about it instead.
So yeah, guns can be used, but let’s not pretend flexing your firearm in public will easily accomplish your goal. Be thoughtful and careful about when and where.
We had tanks in Afghanistan, didn’t stop us from losing. Nobody in history, no matter how well armed, has ever won a war against a dedicated insurgency.
It’s kind of like how many people are afraid of geese. An angry goose can give significant bruises and is basically impossible for an average person to restrain without killing the goose, so the only option is to run away. Because the easy win of breaking the goose’s neck is not on the table for most people.
The US lost in Afghanistan because the goal was to turn it into a functioning democracy, and the local culture did not support that. If the goal had been “winning”, the Army was entirely capable of slaughtering the large majority of the population and then importing settlers to numerically overwhelm the remnant population. Like our ancestors did to the Native Americans.
An insurgency vs an oppressive government is nothing at all like a pedestrian vs a goose, nobody has ever been killed by a goose. The goal was never to create a democracy in Afghanistan, it was just to plunder oil and opium. Wholesale unrestrained slaughter of the civilian population would have destroyed any plausible deniability about our actual goals and united the entire region far more effectively, giving us less time to loot. Also the US can’t afford to slaughter our own population like we did to native americans because we need their labor for our economy to function.
This right here. Asymmetrical warfare is terrible for modern occupying armies.
don’t face them alone
*pervasive surveillance state has entered the chat*
Idk how you figure that has anything to do with whether or not you open carry alone
How do you organize an armed group that’s big enough to be effective without the fascists hearing about it in advance?
You probably don’t, catching them completely off guard isn’t a reasonable expectation or a good reason not to try
skill issue
Because trump is hoping people will do something stupid so that he can overreact and put the entire country in lock down?
Unless you’re going for a violent uprising, violent protests typically do less than large scale continuous peaceful protests
The problem is that the latter also doesn’t happen in the US, it’s as if Americans just don’t care…
Oh yes, I know the excuses, we have a job, we have a family to feed, and DUDE YOU ARE A JEW IN GERMANY 1934, WOULD YOU PLEASE FRIGGING DO SOMETHING ALREADY?
even if no one does anything drastic, trump will escalate anyway. we may get something staged like with charlie kirk, but they may not even find a bullshit reason to justify themselves.
I’m not advocating for violence and 100% agree on the effectiveness of peaceful protests.
it’s as if Americans just don’t care…
They’ve been propagandized over generations into not trying. They have been lead to believe that what is here now is good and don’t see that it could be better.
Is this not the reason the second amendment exists?
No. The second amendment exists to sell guns. All that noise about protecting from tyranny or violence is marketing to sell more guns.
There’s a reason they’re trying their damndest to provoke people into a shooting match but:
Yes.
However, the idea was created in mind so that everyone could be armed in case this very thing happened to occur BUT did not take into consideration advancement in technology, and the ability of the federal government to restrict arms.
Based on the photos I’ve seen, the feds are wearing plate carriers - level IV body armor, designed to stop a .30-06 round. If it’s level 3, it’s gonna stop .223 (Ar-15).
Very few citizens have automatic weapons. You can’t own an RPG without the the right documents. Explosive manufacturing is dangerous, and difficult.
You can’t match federal firepower with the second amendment.
The feds are currently using coward tactics. They are kidnapping people who can’t afford decent housing, let alone smartphones. They go in fast, kidnap everyone, and get out. Even with armed people, they wouldn’t be able to respond fast enough.
That’s why all of us Americans can quickly tell when someone is just trying to start shit when they get angry online…
There are ways to fight back. But they require patience, communication, planning, subterfuge, and more importantly OPSEC. Otherwise the regime just slaughters everyone like they want to.
That’s why all of us Americans can quickly tell when someone is just trying to start shit when they get angry online…
There are ways to fight back. But they require patience, communication, planning, subterfuge, and more importantly OPSEC. Otherwise the regime just slaughters everyone like they want to.
Louder for the motherfuckers in the back!
There are so many fucking people online upset about this shit that amount to not much more than hot air. Chasing the perfect to the detriment of the good. Purity tests. Arguing for blatantly impossible courses of action, or at least ones that will nevet get enough buy in from the greater population to work. Sitting on their asses getting angry while worshipping some half-cocked idea of open revolution, full overthow of the government, and dissolution of the capitalist economic framework… without ever evaluating how the fuck the world could even get to that state except “magic unspecific mass violent revolution”, “complete apocalypse scenario then rebuild”, or “if we all wish upon a star really hard, all the bad people will have simultaneous fatal anuerysms”. Not to mention how the fuck could that state ever be maintained afterwards.
If it’s not outright impossible, it will require an astronomical amount of prep and planning. None of this is shit that just “happens” through sheer desire or will without slow supportive action to build what is neccessary.
People getting their emotional catharsis ranting, venting, and shit stirring without taking any true action. Stirring other people up into the same state.
Get offline, get involved locally, become an expert on the spaces and people around you. Form local connections. Accept that you aren’t an action hero, and if the US military is turned on you, as a civilian you cannot win through force. Build relevant skills for a crisis. Build relevant skills for ongoing resistance. Build skills for organizing locally and securely.
Most importantly: Shut the absolute fuck up. Just shut the fuck up. As far as it’s within your power, don’t make yourself a target and blend in.
I’m already not a good example, as my OPSEC on this account is abysmal. I take solace in that none of my plans or actions involve abject resistance, and are all local good type shit.
Abject resistance is important. Connections are important. Communication is important. Logistics are important. Leave the fighting to the fighters. We’re not fremen. We didn’t live our whole lives to become death commandos.
Having a Lemmy account at all is bad OPSEC. Gotta have active accounts on state-approved social media for that.
TLDR: “This is why we can’t stop nazis, because I’m a chicken and I’m repeating nonsense”
We outnumber them thousands to one. How is their armor going to protect them when their tires are slashed, and they have to walk 30mi through downtown? It’s not.
“But they can kill a hundred people with their awful nazi guns!”
Fuck you, you chickenshit nazi propaganda spewing coward. Nothing can save nazis against their sociopathically bad planning.
We outnumber them thousands to one.
Only when we show up. Most videos of kidnappings I’ve seen it’s maybe a dozen citizens vs a dozen or slightly fewer agents. It needs to be more like 10 to 1 to properly discourage or defend their attacks without an all out assault.
Alright, I encourage you to lead by example and tell me how it goes.
If that commenter actually believed what he was writing, Putin would be dealing with an insurrection in St. Petersburg by now.
I love the choice of standard to hold yourself up to.
That’s why all of us Americans can quickly tell when someone is just trying to start shit when they get angry online…
The abysmal state of your union somewhat belies your stated ability to “tell when someone is just trying to start shit”. Someone started shit quite some time ago, friend. They continue to do so and I don’t see any evidence that the body politic is even remotely aware.
I’m just saying the American shit detection algorithm might not be as sophisticated as you’re making it out to be.
This would be grounds to incite a civil war.
Also, the second amendment gives us the right to assassinate our leaders. Problem is, nobody is trying, except the fool who missed Trump.
The second amendment gives us the right to assassinate our leaders?
Is there precedent for that? Several Presidents have been assassinated, and I believe all of the assassins were killed or prosecuted or both.
The Constitution agrees that yes, you should assassinate your leaders from tyranny.
But if you ask them and the law? They won’t agree. So it isn’t like you’re free from the consequences of that action.
