Aside from racism. I mean economically/socially, what issues does too much immigration cause?
If you provide real social security for anyone in the country and don’t limit immigration at all, you attract people who aren’t willing or able to work and want to live off social security.
Poppycock.
It’s the same argument than if you provide social security people don’t want to work anymore. Its classist and racist.
Congrats. You hit two right wing propaganda points with one scentence.
Feel free to prove me wrong with reliable sources and real numbers.
I’d love to see data on that.
You won’t, cause there isn’t a single country in the world which doesn’t limit immigration, and also not a single country in the world which provides solid social security to all its inhabitants (and not only its citizens).
It was just a hypothetical answer to your hypothetical question, and for the record, I’m very much in favor of lenient immigration laws.Well due to lack of data, I’m inclined to say that line of reasoning is bullshit.
How quickly your culture can absorb new people. If you’ve got a hundred people who are in culture a, and you integrate 100 people from culture b. Now culture a is 50/50. And it’s hard for culture a to maintain its traditional positioning.
If you want to maintain a culture, a people, a language, you need to gate how many people enter the population at any time. So that it can be absorbed.
You similar problems with militaries, how quickly they can ramp up new recruits will still maintaining their previous cadre culture.
America is a nation of immigrants so I don’t really understand this argument. Cultures don’t really integrate that way, plus assimilation is a generational thing.
A 2018 study in the American Sociological Review found that within racial groups, most immigrants to the United States had fully assimilated within a span of 20 years. Immigrants arriving in the United States after 1994 assimilate more rapidly than immigrants who arrived in previous periods.
Measuring assimilation can be difficult due to “ethnic attrition”, which refers to when descendants of migrants cease to self-identify with the nationality or ethnicity of their ancestors. This means that successful cases of assimilation will be underestimated. Research shows that ethnic attrition is sizable in Hispanic and Asian immigrant groups in the United States.
By taking ethnic attrition into account, the assimilation rate of Hispanics in the United States improves significantly. A 2016 paper challenges the view that cultural differences are necessarily an obstacle to long-run economic performance of migrants. It finds that “first generation migrants seem to be less likely to success the more culturally distant they are, but this effect vanishes as time spent in the US increases”. A 2020 study found that recent immigrants to the United States assimilated at a similar pace as historical immigrants.
The US really is a special case even within just America and really cannot be compared to today’s refugee hotspots like Europe at all. For starters, US culture is very young and mostly made up of invaders and migrants. There is very little native culture still there as it has been assimilated for hundreds of years, mostly by Europeans. On top of that, there have been heavy crackdowns on migrant cultures as well, making it anything but the organically grown culture it often claims to be. And as such I think it is a bad example of how unchecked mass migration can work because it didn’t work for the natives and it didn’t happen for the modern US. It does show that strong migration can lead to great success, though it’s still far less densely populated than Europe even now so a direct comparison is still difficult.
The economic benefits of immigration also applies to European countries, despite the racist sentiments many Europeans have towards immigrants. Additionally, the West’s destabilization of the Global South, from war and climate change, has caused the increase in people seeking asylum and immigration.
The crackdowns on migrants and the deliberate two-tier immigration system is certainly a problem, and is deliberate in order to coerce illegal immigrants into very low paying jobs with no workers rights under the threat of deportation.
Immigration was not the cause of the genocide of the Native Americans, that was due to Settler Colonialism and Dehumanization. That is not like today. Immigrants are not settler colonialist like the early Americans. Additionally, it is the US citizens who are dehumanizing Immigrants, not the other way around. Immigrants are a positive, the only negative is the reactionary violence by racist far-right domestic terrorists.
You gloss over the part where even with the best intentions imaginable European immigration would have killed 90 % of American Natives with their new pathogens. No matter which way you slice it that is a scenario where European culture becomes the dominant culture, though it would certainly be nice not to have overt genocide and oppression sprinkled on top.
(Of course that’s not the case right now and the great replacement theory is a fascist invention, if that needs saying)
Also be careful not to infantilise immigrants. There is a marginal but highly visible issue happening for example where Saudi Arabia is funding Wahhabit (i.e. highly orthodox) mosques and imams in Europe that when combined with depressed socioeconomic opportunities fuels religious antagonism/radicalism particularly amongst particularly vulnerable teenage second generation immigrants. Is it an existential threat to European hegemony or something Europe is incapable of absorbing? Certainly not. Doesn’t mean it’s an issue we have to refuse to acknowledge in the name of our own leftist orthodoxy.
The pathogens created by hundreds of years of isolation between the new and old world, due to the disproportionate access to animal husbandry, is both completely unrelated to modern immigration, and does not at all change the fact that Dehumanization and Settler Colonialism nearly eradicated native American people and erased their culture. So why bring it up? How can you consider genocide and settler Colonialism a ‘sprinkle’
What part of treating everyone as equals, including people immigrating, is ‘infantilizing’ to you? Immigrants, across the board, are responsible for less crime per capita. That is a fact.
If you’re worried about jihadist terrorism in Europe, you should look at the EUs findings. The cause is from online radicalization, not immigration.
Quote
Most of the terrorist attacks in Europe were perpetrated by home-grown terrorists, European citizens born in the EU who radicalised without even leaving Europe. Parliament proposed measures to fight radicalisation and extremism in prisons, online and through education and social inclusion already in 2015.
In December 2020, Parliament endorsed the EU Security Union strategy 2020-2025 and the new Counter-Terrorism Agenda, which aims to prevent radicalisation by providing, for example, opportunities for young people at risk and supporting the rehabilitation of radicalised prisoners.
The causes and prevention of radicalization is important to consider, such as material conditions and marginalization. But attributing the actions of those individuals who do jihadist terrorism to all Muslims or Immigrants or their culture makes no sense. They are the vast minority and in no way represent Muslims or Immigrants as a whole. Limiting or restricting immigration would not prevent that kind of radicalization. Education, preventing marginalization, and promoting awareness are the ways to address that root cause of radicalization.
Quote
However, radicalisation is rarely fuelled by ideology or religion alone. It often starts with individuals who are frustrated with their lives, society or the domestic and foreign policies of their governments. There is no single profile of someone who is likely to become involved in extremism, but people from marginalised communities and experiencing discrimination or loss of identity provide fertile ground for recruitment.
Western Europe’s involvement in conflict zones such as Afghanistan and Syria is also considered to have a radicalising effect, especially on migrant communities.
Yeah as I expected you’re projecting right wing talking points on what I said and answering those instead of anything I -at the very least- meant.
I just do not think that, in a frictionless vacuum, one can completely dismiss the idea that there can be some, however microscopic and inconsequential downsides to immigration (through no individual fault in the vast majority of the population).
Do consider that at the very least if Europe hypothetically did away with border checks entirely and strived for massive immigration, the ensuing brain drain would wreak havoc on the Global South (even worse than right now, kinda like happened within the EU with the former eastern block). Regardless of the exact mechanism, mass migration has long-lasting sociocultural impacts and to say these are only positive is pure globalist ideology.
Well good thing we’re not taking in 330 million immigrants all at once then, so this will never be a problem.
You know there are other countries tries right?
A lot of european countries are only a few million people…
are European countries regularly taking in migrant populations equal to their countries population?
Why does it need to be equal to population?
I’m not saying that all immigration is bad, but rather that above a certain level it gets difficult to integrate people. For european countries this is a much lower number than the US, since populations are much lower. At the same time, there are many more refugees than in the US.
It’s a genuine challenge here in Vienna, for instance, at the moment because recent immigrants make up a large percentage of school kids, who often have few language skills, tend to be very religious, and have extremely conservative views on things like feminism and gay rights. Unfortunately, their views tend to self-reinforce rather than become milder over time due to being the majority view among their peers/in their school/community.
You can’t really blame the kids, obviously they are just a product of the culture they grew up in, however you also can’t just ignore the issue. There isn’t any mechanism for preventing immigrants groups from clustering in specific areas (and I don’t think most people would be in favor of anything that draconian)
In an ideal world, maybe there is a perfect solution, but the reality is that the current system is facing a huge challenge. Like it or not, this is directly tied to immigration rates.
Why does it need to be equal to population?
Because I was responding to the previous commenter that cited specifically those numbers.
I get what you’re saying, that other cultures are not as tolerant, and when said culture pops up in a previously tolerant area, it can cause tensions. To that I’d say that we have a system of government enforcing laws in a uniform manner across a region precisely because not everyone agrees uniformly. You can’t strip away the freedom to be wrong, you can only enforce rules that support equity, safety, and inclusion, and do so especially within local populations that seem to eschew it.
But also, not all migrants are intolerant. So assuming that they 1. are, and 2. will stay that way, is a xenophobic dog whistle.
Is culture really that big of a problem? Especially for the US, which prides itself on being a melting pot of different cultures
sure.
You put too much cheese in the melting pot all at once, your cheese can burn, end up poorly integrated, or end up separating.
It doesn’t really matter what culture it is, it takes time for newcomers to adapt and integrate. The greater the differences between the norm and the new, the more turbulent that integration can be.
Plus, frankly, we have enough crackpots and extremists of our own. Just letting everyone in, with no limits, you end up with even more, and that may be more than any culture can take.
Right now? We can’t take any more right wing extremists without it ending in war. Doesn’t matter where they’re from, why they’re extremists, it’s a matter of numbers. The entire damn country is closer to global center than anything else, and we’re barely hanging on to democracy.
That’s one example.
Another is religious. How many extra strict adherents can we take on without disrupting the general trend towards a kind of religious neutrality?
Religion is too big a cultural factor to just dump in large numbers to a culture without problems. It isn’t even about the given religion being good or bad of whatever, it’s about needing time to adapt to where you’re moving instead of just forming an insular and unintegrated cultural cyst.
Realistically, it doesn’t matter what the differences are, any culture can only take so much disruption at once without fragmenting entirely.
Also, you asked the question, I gave response. That’s how public discussion works.
…no shit? Weird passive aggressive comment out of nowhere
Edit: a perfect example of how bad things can be, and why you don’t want large numbers coming in without integration. https://slrpnk.net/pictrs/image/48b6b106-78ac-4a36-8a42-9fa62afb67f2.jpeg
What country is this?
Plus, frankly, we have enough crackpots and extremists of our own. Just letting everyone in, with no limits, you end up with even more, and that may be more than any culture can take.
Strange you think “newcomers = crackpots”. All the immigrants I’ve met have been normal, sane people. Most crackpots are born citizens. It could be that letting in immigrants will dilute the ratio of crackpots.
Doesn’t matter where they’re from, why they’re extremists, it’s a matter of numbers.
I don’t really foresee ISIS allying with the KKK. Obviously it’s not ideal to have either, but they’re working against each other as much as against society.
How many extra strict adherents can we take on without disrupting the general trend towards a kind of religious neutrality?
That’s a good question. I’d be interested in any data. I could see a religious sect taking over a government (democratically) and then using their power to enforce religion. But also, again I don’t foresee different religions working together on this, and it may be that the more different religions we throw together the more they cancel themselves out - it’s harder to believe your god is the real god when you’re surrounded by other people with different gods who also believe THEIR god is the real god.
That’s just me spitballing though, like I said I don’t really have any information one way or the other.
.
There’s something to be said for culture and tradition, which have been for a long time the cornerstones of our civilization.
Everybody has their own opinion on this of course. For me, I feel that culture and tradition are in the way of progress. At some point our current traditions, cultures and values will change, they will evolve. I’m all in for a true multicultural society if there is a clear segregation between state and religion.
The issue is though that “segregation between state and religion” is a cultural trait. It’s not something that every culture values, nor is it something that inevitably happens.
In fact, it’s almost certainly a minority opinion on a global level. Particularly in (although not exclusive to) poorer non-western countries which tend to be much more conservative and religious.
A small number of conservative immigrants won’t hugely impact views in the host country, but a sizable number (particularly if they are concentrated in certain areas) absolutely can.
Problems start when the people coming in don’t share those sentiments and instead want their authoritarian culture to replace and dominate.
Edit: also, in the West democracy and equality have become part of our culture and tradition, for the most part, and those values just are not shared by lots of migrants. And you can’t tolerate those values being replaced. It’s the paradox of tolerance.
Like Christianity did you mean?
That said, I don’t disagree with the sentiment - the respect should come both ways and the imigrants should respect the native culture, but that also doesn’t mean they havento give up their own.
I agree! (Also about Christianity, fuck anyone whose dogmatism causes them to disrespect any marginalized group.)
But I don’t think anyone should tolerate intolerance. If it’s part of your culture to subjugate women and hate LGBTQ people or other religions, you will have to change that part of your culture or fuck all the way off.
People downvoting you don’t realize how good we have it compared to majority of the world’s population.
That’s a fair thing to be concerned about, but are we really anywhere near that level of immigration in the US? I can’t speak for European countries.
Both the US and Europe would be much nearer to that level if any migration was allowed unchecked. It is becoming a problem in Europe and it is growing. It’s just a sad reality that democracy can’t consist of people who don’t believe in democracy.
Local culture always changes in time. Take Europe, it’s culture steeped and deeply influenced by Christianity in many countries. And yet Christianity is a religion with Middle East origins. People just don’t look at the bigger picture - or don’t want to. The change in the past was not happening to them, but it is now and that’s what matters.
In some ways perhaps culture and tradition do stand in the way of progress, but it’s not that clear cut.
In Australia the majority of migrants are from South East Asia, which are much more conservative politically than Australia.
For example, more migration is not going to further transgender rights.
I have a feeling that this might be true of a lot of places, just because of the nature of migration.
Poorer places tend to be more conservative, and immigrants tend to leave poorer places to go to richer places.
That was my implication, yes. Well done.
Aside from racism.
No such thing. It’s racism all the way down, no matter what colour they try to paint it.
I’m curious how so? Wouldn’t an influx of people immigrating into any country cause a dramatic economic shift? I’m aware racism plays a part of the selection process but I can’t imagine it’s the sole reason for such strict control over immigration.
Check Swedens problems recently with unchecked immigration.
Or you could tell me about them? That’s why I asked the question.
Well long story short sweden has had quite relaxed immigration law for a long time and is now dealing with major crime problems as violent gangs cause shootings in the cities.
source: trust me bro
Really? You can Google this and find plenty of sources online super easily.
Holy crap, it took two seconds to type this into DDG
Google, show me my biased opinion
Amazing
Immigration only really causes economic issues with bullshit employee specific visas like H1Bs - those visas trap immigrants in powerless positions where they’re unable to advocate for fair compensation and drive down overall wages.
Everything else is fucking bullshit xenophobia.
Would more supply of workers (even naturalized ones) not drive down wages too?
An increase in supply would reduce wages, unless it also increases demand. If you think about wages in cities vs rural areas, you’ll see that most of the time more people = more economic activity = higher wages.
Where this breaks down, is if there’s barriers of entry that prevent immigrants from participating in the economy fully. If immigrants aren’t allowed to legally work or start business (as happens with some asylum seekers or ‘illegal’ immigrants) then they are forced to compete over a small pool of off-book / cash-in-hand jobs, which could see a reduction in wages without a significant increase in overall economic activity.
Sounds like an argument for amnesty for illegals honestly. And more relaxed legal immigration pathways.
Eh, it doesn’t really seem like that tends to happen… economies are weird and if you keep adding people you tend to just get more and more service jobs.
Doesn’t sound that weird. More people means more people to serve, so more service jobs are needed.
But where does the extra money and infrastructure come from to provide everything they need?
More people means more mouths to feed, more strain on the limited housing market driving prices and inaccessibility up, more capacity required at hospitals, doctor’s surgeries, schools, all public services (meaning everything from more doctors, nurses, consumables, locations, etc needed), and so on.
Where does the money come from to provide for the net influx of 500,000+~ people a year, a population increase of some 0.75%?
I’m not against immigration, welcoming people from other cultures with fresh ideas and outlooks on life is great and I love it, but the strain it places immediately on our already failing societal systems, such as healthcare, education, housing availability, job availability, etc, is very real, and needs to be addressed.
more capacity required at hospitals, doctor’s surgeries, schools, all public services (meaning everything from more doctors, nurses, consumables, locations, etc needed)
So, skilled, high paying jobs? More architects, more plumbers, more software developers, more of all kinds of jobs
But where does the extra money and infrastructure come from to provide everything they need?
What is money in the first place? It represents labour and resources. So when a new person shows up, they themselves provide the money in the form of their labour. They are the money.
That money comes from taxes that rise with increased economic activity that rise with the population.
and now you need houses for people to live in and people to make the houses, and now there’s more people and they invent things, which makes things better and more people come and there’s more farming and more people to make more things for more people and now there’s business, money, writing, laws, power,
Can we go on land yet?
There is no or a very small impact of regulation on the number of exiled people coming in country. However, making more people illegal let bosses exploit them more. Those workers could not sue their boss because of those regulations, and most conservative unions rely unfortunately too much on legal solutions.
So if a country couldn’t limit immigrations, it could exploit more people and bybass human right with regulations against exiled people.
Yes, this is only positive for far-right bosses, and awful for others. But guess who decide in a capitalist economy ?
Not sure why you were downvoted, but this is a good point. In fact, I find it interesting that the US hasn’t stopped pretending and just lifted the law against hiring illegal immigrants.
It’s the main argument on how to stop illegal immigration, no one seems to talk about. Instead of building walls, jailing people or even shooting them for crossing the border, they should crack down on the people who hire them. To me it’s just conservatives admitting that their opinions are just racist.
Sorry if you the conversation was about Europe. Just relating it to home.
Mostly to avoid having infrastructure and social safety networks overwhelmed. Yes, you will also see wages be depressed by large-scale immigration, but that’s something that could–in theory–be controlled by strengthening unions and labor regulations. That’s not where we are though; right now, unions and labor regulations are fairly weak, and are being gutted by courts even as the NLRB tries to strengthen them.
Housing takes time to build, and good city planning is necessary to ensure that cities are sustainable rather than being sprawls. (Not many cities do that, BTW; it’s usually, “oh, we’ll just add another lane to the existing 20 lane interstate”). Given that we’re currently in a situation where there’s insufficient low- and middle-income high density housing, and few companies are willing to build any more, competition for most of the immigrants that we’re seeing–people that are trying to get away from deep economic woes–would be fierce for housing.
and few companies are willing to build any more
I don’t think this is actually true. At least in my area, developers would LOVE to build condos and apartments all over the place, but local laws are holding them back.
I suppose even in a perfectly willing area that upgrades its infrastructure to support more people, you don’t want to move people in too quickly, before that infrastructure is available. But it’s easy to see that become a self fulfilling prophecy: we don’t take immigrants because we don’t have the infrastructure, and we don’t build the infrastructure because there’s no demand for it.
I don’t think anyone wants to make a brand new condo and try to full it full of fresh immigrants that other businesses are exploiting to pay less.
They want to develop 1 set of condos they can sell for $300k+ rather than 3 sets for $100k
Yeah, immigrants would be better served by apartments
No. No, that’s not it at all.
Immigrants would be better served by unprofitable low income housing, not feeding their meager scraps to pay artificially inflated rent prices to an offshore real estate investment company.
Well duh. In fact, they’d be better served by FREE housing!
In the realm of realistic solutions, apartments.
Fun fact! My coworker pays more in rent for his apartment than I do on the mortgage of my house. Most often this is true.
I’m getting a once over by the bank, he’s getting done once over by the bank and again by his landlord, and they might not ever be different.
So how is an immigrant supposed to thrive when a foreign investment firm is profiting off them twice?
Subsidize affordable housing, tax wholesale & foreign landlords out of existence. It’s simple.
It’s a pipedream.
Yeah this is the biggest issue.
The way most housing gets built where I live it works like this: A company handles the project management, buying the land, getting the permits, hiring the builders, doing the marketing/sales etc. This costs a HUGE amount of money, which they don’t have. So these projects get designed on paper and then sold to investors. These put in a big amount of money, with the expectation of the project making money in the sales of the housing in the end. This means they can often double their entry in a couple of years, which is really good in terms of investments. As the investors want to make as much money as possible, the company designing the housing have incentives to not only make the houses as dense as possible, but also as expensive as possible. Their margins in percent are about the same no matter the house, so a more expensive house makes them more money. This leads to really big expensive homes crammed together in either high rises or plots. It’s really dumb as well since detached homes are worth more, they build homes with like 2 meter between them. The biggest issue is, only rich people can afford these homes. Even though more homes are built, the majority of people looking to buy a home can’t afford these. Homes also get sold to investors again, to rent out as the house itself appreciates in value. These expensive homes also have the effect of driving up property prices in the area, which leads to more expensive houses and higher taxes.
In the end, it’s only the rich that profit. They get the good investment projects, making them even more rich. They get to buy the expensive new homes to live in. They get to buy the homes to rent out and use as an investment vehicle.
Some places have made them build cheaper homes as well, if they want to get the permit. But it’s not enough. We need to be building practical affordable homes, but we don’t cause the people putting up the money to build stuff don’t want to.
If only we had some sort of public entity that could fund housing investments with little to no financial gain, but great gains to public support and well-being that was also in charge of controlling and permitting immigration rates so that the two could be balanced…
AFAIK, the issue around me is largely profitability. You can buy up acres if land, chop it up into 1/2ac parcels, quickly build cheap “luxury houses”, and sell them for 2-3x your costs, easily earning $200k+ per house sold (“Coming soon, from the low $400s…!”). And it’s all with fairly minimal regulation, compared to building high-density housing in existing cities. Compare and contrast that with building low- and middle-income high-density housing, where you’re going to end up managing it as apartments (probably not condos; that’s uncommon in my area); that means that you’re in the red for a larger number of years before you pay back the initial costs of construction, since the profitability comes through rents.
Maybe I’m wrong; all I can comment on is the kind of building that I’m seeing in my area, and the way that the closest city–which was originally about 90 minutes away–is now alarmingly close.
Sprawl sucks. Density is what we should be promoting.
Of course, and I agree (…even as I’m looking at buying a few hundred acres of land in a desert three hours away from any town over 1000 people…). But you’ve got a lot of incentives working against that.
The town I’m in is starting to be a suburb of the city 90 minutes away; the town wants these people, and their homes from the low $400s, because that’s more tax base; they pay property taxes that the town wouldn’t otherwise have. So my town is happy–kind of–to be part of the problem.
That’s the big issue in my area. The city and it’s lovely corporate-sucking politicians keep putting out ‘information’ about the city being “X% developed!” The only thing being developed is more strip malls and high cost houses. Everything green and natural is disappearing. It’s all single-family sprawl, with only a few super-high luxury apartments scattered about and maybe 2-3 apartment buildings that anyone on a lower budget could afford. The politicians get their greedy fingers into higher tax revenues, the developing/building corporations sit back and suck up investor money, and investors get to suck up their profits because housing is relatively scarce and the cost for properties shoots through the roof.
The “shot in the foot” effect when you accept immigrants from conservative/racist countries and they and - most likely - the next generation will vote right wing which more accurately mirrors those conservative/racist beliefs.
just have a look at the EU and also Germany with some crazies wanting shariah law…this is Germany we are talking about,with their histories and what not
In my opinion, country-based immigration paired with needs-based works really well.
Ultimately, many of the best parts of the culture of a place are because of what people brought with them years ago. Some of the best restaurants are because someone in India moved to the UK, and then moved to the US and brought the culture of Curry Mile or Brick Lane with them, or because a community of Greek railroad workers decided to set up bakeries using their known recipes that all the locals love.
The same often goes for business. Look at the rise of Aldi and Lidl, and how cheap produce and great workers rights will suddenly make local supermarkets look in bewilderment at how markets they once dominated are being torn away from them.
IMO, if you have skills to offer, you should be welcome. I’m currently in the process of moving to the US on a high-skilled visa, and it is mad how one country will require thousands in legal fees and 24+ month waits while a country next door will say “Shit, you can teach?! Come join us! If you want to stay permanently that’s fine!”
It’s a complex and polarising issue. The main problem is that some, sometimes most, of immigrants don’t want to assimilate. They are creating ghettos, don’t respect local laws. Other issue is that governments prefer to spend tax payer money for accommodating immigrants instead of solving nation’s issues.
I wouldn’t limit immigration per se. I would limit unchecked illegal immigration and spend more money on assimilating immigrants that want to contribute to a country they moved into.
The main problem is that some, sometimes most, of immigrants don’t want to assimilate. They are creating ghettos, don’t respect local laws.
Generalisations like this are the very reason it’s a polarising issue. Opinions like yours generally derive from “observation” and “gut feeling”. Which by definition is completely anecdotal and harmful when it begins to be applied to millions of people all at once.
Betsy from insert town here sees an immigrant couple down the street in her home-town keeping to themselves and not really wanting to take part in the community. She’s talking on the phone to nosy-nessie the town busybody who says “oh…you know…my aunt said the same thing about her insert culture neighbours.” And then all of a sudden, that’s just “how those people are”…all of them…everywhere.
Maybe this couple is just a little embarrassed about their english skills and want to strengthen them more before going into public everywhere, which comes across as shy. Maybe they’re just private…who knows. But suddenly…“it’s just how (those people) are”, becomes the anecdotal “truth”.
It’s wrong, it’s dangerous, and the fact that you don’t even grasp the irony of your own comment is telling in a lot of ways.
No unfortunately. There is plenty of evidence of immigrants building their own justice systems and authorities under the radar of their new countries because it goes against the freedoms and expectations.
We shouldn’t ignore that and not talk about it.
Great. Then you shouldn’t have any problem coming up with three examples for us all.
Regarding potential societal issues:
When multiple cultures mix together, one of two things can happen:
-
The cultures mesh well and either coexist or mutually mix into something new
-
The cultures do not mesh well and this leads to all sorts of problems, especially increased crime
The second usually happens when both cultures place opposite value in something. For example, one culture places a high value on self and the other places a high value on being in a group, this can lead to a divide between cultures. Eventually, the resentment each group has for each other will lead to violence and other sorts of crime. One culture may think “I made the money for myself,” while the other thinks ,“we should all share the money.” If people don’t learn how to get along, you can probably see how that would increase criminal activity. In most cases, it is usually the expectation that the immigrant adapt to the culture of the new place they have moved to, rather than the new place’s home residents being expected to adapt to every immigrants different country cultures.
It also isn’t good when immigrants enter a new country and do not know the laws of the country they have entered. They may commit crimes that could have been legal wherever they came from, but now someone may be a victim to a crime and the immigrant did not know. Now, usually immigrants that legally enter a country do learn about the basic laws of the country and the basic culture, but ones that enter a country illegally may know nothing about the place they are in. They may continue to act the same as they did in their previous home, which may have very different laws, leading to further divide.
It’s a racist lie that increased immigration leads to increased crime.
The mythical tie between immigration and crime - a Stanford Study
In most cases, it is usually the expectation that the immigrant adapt to the culture of the new place they have moved to, rather than the new place’s home residents being expected to adapt to every immigrants different country cultures.
Yeah this topic is really showing my American bias. Or rather Californian. I’m used to a fluid, adaptable culture.
I would be really hesitant to trust the answers here. How many people responding on Lemmy actually have an educated position on how these systems work? Because I can tell you that there are some fields where Lemmy users are just plain ignorant, while displaying all the confidence of certainty. Especially when you include Europeans on the topic of race… what a shitshow.
The safe reading of this thread is to assume every response is an ignorant, bitter xenophobe who gets all their info from a Fox news equivalent. You can still hear their point, but don’t be fooled into thinking they aren’t missing something that completely flips the story.
In general, I assume everyone on lemmy is some form of absolute moron, and I’m more often right than wrong.
-
Aside from racism, it is usually the belief that the new immigrants will either be economic competition for those with jobs or a drain on welfare.
in my country that’s exactly what is happening, they are taking the simpler jobs for much cheaper, and lot of our “native” people has/had jobs like this.
ironically, this country is among the loudest in anti-immigration in the EU, all the while they are immigrating people from neighboring countries exactly for cheap labor.
That combined with a lack of available housing are the answers I see most often.
Gee, if only we could find the labor to build some extra housing. Must be that the immigrants taking our jobs just don’t want to work these days.
You also need money, materials, and space to build housing though and I doubt all immigrants are carpenters, electricians, plumbers, and all the other professionals needed to build homes.
It depends on the kind of immigrant. You have students, high educated workforce, people that flee from war/not safe to stay country and people that just want a (economic) better life.
I think too much of any immigration can cause maybe an issue that the majority of people are new and that the culture (how do we interact with each other, what is acceptable behavior etc) has not settled.
They eat people pets \s
