Yes, but corporations pay into the system in other ways. Take for example the time Duke Energy had a big coal ash spill into a river. They took the income resources they had and not only paid a fair fine price, cleaned up the…
Wait. No they didn’t. They passed on all the costs to their customers. Fortunately those customers were able to use the free market and choose another provider…
Wait. No, they can’t. Huh. That IS a freeloader.
Damn I hated you on those first lines 😂
Oh yes, I remember this. Duke assessed the river bed and determined that a cleanup could cause more damage and would be super expensive. So they did no cleanup AND increased rates.
increased rates
You think that assessment was free? Think again pal.
Climate Town, is this you??
Lol, no, but maybe I was channeling him. Great Youtuber.
I hate you. Wait no I don’t 😂
I was sceptical about the lack of sources so I DDG’d it:
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/18/us/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-cec/index.html
Fastest way to get caught hiring undocumented workers is to not pay their employment taxes.
Racism is either a symptom or a tool:
Those who cant make sense of their situation being unsatisfactory may fall prey to it to soothe themselves.
Those who hoard all of the worlds wealth use it to distract from that fact.
Worth noting that a lot of the people raging about immigrants don’t see themselves as racist.
I have a quote that fits this situation well:
When you‘re dead, you do not know you are dead. Its only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid.
Or themselves as immigrants, for that matter.
A German settler calling a Hispanic migrant “illegal” really says something about the legal and social zeitgeist.
Or a white person as an immigrant.
If you apply liberal’s superficial understanding of what white supremacism actually is hard enough it’s very easy to end up in a situation where nobody could possibly be a white supremacist.
I’d actually be willing to bet that we (the US taxpayer) paid those corporations for the privilege of their continued existence
Stupid question: If undocumented, how are they verifiably paying anything close to this figure in taxes? Pls respond
They can request and may be assigned an individual tax ID number (ITIN). Having an ITIN may allow them to open a bank account. It also makes it so they pay taxes which a surprising number want to do. Since they want to stay in the country, having a long history of paying taxes is a way to show you don’t want to cause trouble and you just want to work. Hell, a lot of them probably know they got Al Capone on tax evasion and don’t want to end up like him. Here’s a report I just Googled, and possibly the source of the number which is an estimate.
On the other side is how much tax funding is used on them. Here’s a report from the House of Representatives which states they use more in services (Medicare, WIC, sending kids to school, etc) than they pay. I can’t speak to how accurate the report is considering the makeup and views publicly expressed by members of the committee. I’m personally leaning towards ‘they don’t, and can’t, use as more than they contribute’ because they’re not eligible for many benefits.
I love how in your last article it’s a human centipede ouroboros
Macgregor said that “every alleged asylum seeker, illegal migrant pouring in through the border in Texas or wherever else” is given a monthly payment of $2,200.
Gheen added that ALIPAC “did not make the original claim about the $2,200,” pointing to Carlson’s interview with Macgregor as its source.
Macgregor cited an article published by a Houston radio station on its website to support the claim he made during the interview, which quotes Gheen and the ALIPAC release. The article was published a week after his interview.
Just because you’re undocumented doesn’t mean the IRS will give up on taking your money.
Not all taxes are collected, much of what we pay in taxes is added on to the cost of things.
For example, sales tax.
Sensible question. Nobody even knows how many undocumented people are in a country - because they’re undocumented.
This has to be a made up figure. The sentiment might be correct but the data is dubious.
It’s explained upthread. You can get an ITIN to pay taxes if you don’t have a Social Security Number. The estimate is from the amount collected by the IRS from people with ITINs.
probably the tax on their daily spendings
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probably by questionnaires on spending habits
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I suspect it might be but in its core it points at a truth, anyone who works in a country creates value and anyone who spends their earnings in a country contributes to tax. And I would not be surprised that proportional to their income immigrants end up paying more tax to their country than a billionaire.
Its funny how much owning a successful business sound exactly like being a lazy, work-shy layabout who does nothing while living off of other people’s hard work.
Damn, Sam Reichs father is really big on social media
He worked for multiple presidential administrations and was in the cabinet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Reich
Yeah, that was just a stupid Dropout joke ^^
The real reason your taxes are high is because of… the bears!
Did those companies make billions in profit? Or just billions in revenue and did creative accounting and investing so that they didn’t actually make a profit so they don’t need to pay tax?
I think that would average between $5.000 and $3.000 per undocumented immigrant.
3-5 bucks ain’t much
I remembered the american billions, I remembered to use the currency symbol before the number. But it was finally the simple point, instead of a comma, which defeated me.
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I think people are getting the implied sarcasm.
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He should change the name to Robert 4rd Reich.
Four-rd?
Fourst
Posts like this are important, but unfortunately in vain, I’m afraid. Those who still don’t understand it will never understand it. I think they don’t want to. I don’t get it.
I’d say it’s still important to post and talk about, not for the people who know and don’t care, but for the people who don’t know and do care.
How is the government getting taxes from people it doesn’t know exist?? I thought you had to file your taxes yourself in America, why or how would the migrants even do that? Or if the employer is doing that, who do they say they are doing it for??
While immigrants in the country without authorization do not have Social Security numbers, they can file taxes using an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, or ITIN.
Reports about 3m people file using an ITIN each year, and the number of people expected to legally use them is very small.
Also says they see about $12B more paid into social security by illegals than paid out.
As Al Capone found, the government is would rather you pay tax on illegally earned money.
As Al Capone found, the government is would rather you pay tax on illegally earned money.
That was more an end run around accidentally indicting all the state and federal officials who’d gotten wrapped up in his corruption.
Capone should have gone down for murder years earlier, but too much of the early Hoover Era FBI was willing to turn a blind eye to Capone’s mafia exploits or rat out informants before they could go to trial.
Yes. But my point is that the IRS has a process for declaring and paying tax on income that you got illegally, whether it’s from being a mobster or working without the right visa.
Capone didn’t follow that process, so got done for tax evasion.
These illegal immigrants are paying their taxes, and therefore a) they aren’t exposed to prosecution for tax evasion, and b) the IRS won’t rat them out to ICE.
These illegal immigrants are paying their taxes
The vast majority of them are earning under the standard deduction and don’t actually owe anything. Individuals don’t owe taxes on income under $29.2k and the cheap labor migrants provide mean they often earn far less. Since they aren’t eligible for any refundable credits, this means there’s no incentive to file.
Where they pay their taxes is typically on the consumer end - sales, real estate, gas/utilities taxes, etc.
How much was paid with employee income tax? How much was paid with VAT?
How much did immigrants take out of the system?
This is the most biased one sided comparison.
It’s strange how in the when businesses employee people and that wage gets taxed that’s 100% on the employee. But when a business sells a product and it gets taxed that’s 100% on the customer.
Undocumented immigrants can’t file income tax, because they are undocumented. However, they also can’t utilize the majority of our costly social services, because they, obviously, don’t have documentation. They can’t sign up for welfare programs, utilize police resources for fear of being deported, etc.
Overall though, they are also human. They produce similar economic demand to Americans. They pay sales tax. Their landlord pays tax on their rent. They are also often paid less than Americans because they have no ability to enforce the law through legal means (again, for fear of being deported), but still have to buy things like food, which is taxed.
Thus, they tend to, at a bare minimum, take roughly about what they put in, leaving a mostly neutral effect on the economy.
Immigration is generally regarded to boost innovation overall, lead to higher education rates within the workforce, and creates higher overall economic productivity., which is an effect on the economy that isn’t just taxes in, taxes out.
Of course, the best option we have is to grant them amnesty, because that then means they can file & pay income taxes, can more easily be statistically measured and analyzed as a group, and can engage in class solidarity through union organization, which raises working conditions and wages for all workers.
Explain to me how an illegal immigrant is “taking” anything from the system.
An easy example is not paying income tax. Some illegals work for cash because they’re undocumented and so pay no income tax. When that person uses public stuff like roads and local dog parks and anything that’s ultimately paid for with taxes, they’re taking benefits and not paying back into the system.
Whether or not we might want to deport someone or otherwise punish them for this “freeloading” is a separate question, but I don’t think there’s much of an argument to say that no amount of freeloading is happening at all.
Define “freeloading” for me. They don’t have access to big social services (TANF, SSI, etc) due to not having documentation, roads are funded through fuel taxes as far as I’m aware (so if they’re pumping gas, they’re paying for the roads), dog parks are usually paid out of local sales tax (again, only as far as I know, I live in GA and we’re a fucked up state a lot of times).
Income tax is a big one, but not on a small scale (like municipal level)… Hell, I haven’t ever had a local income tax that I can remember.
Yeah I take your meaning that the severity of the freeloading is negligible in most cases.
I was just trying to demonstrate how an illegal immigrant could in principal be “taking” from the system for the person who asked.
Well that’s just the level of economic understanding on this website. Immigrants get everything for free but everyone else pays for society at large.
Illegals pay taxes bud. I’m sorry you didn’t know that. When they buy groceries they are taxed. Everything they buy is taxed. The only thing they are getting away with is federal and state taxes but there are plenty of Americans that don’t pay their taxes either.
Everything the tv is telling you about undocumented workers is a lie. Even the numbers. Some of your favorite brands are perpetuating the problem because they love to hire these “freeloaders” and pay them poverty wages and not tell anyone. Tyson is one of the biggest employers of illegal immigrants.
If the Republican Party gave a shit about fixing the issue they would stop allowing businesses to hire these people.
Nah Bro, it’s biased against poor and pro rich. Taxes on income are nothing the company pays, it’s paid by the employees.
Taxes on profits and gains are circumvented by “declaring necessary investments” to set the net profit to 0.
I know there are cases where this is legit, but I doubt, Amazon and others just steal.
From an economic perspective it’s largely the same.
Research and development is important for long term growth that’s why governments do their best to financially encourage it.
But this is Lemmy. Might as well be talking to a spam sandwich when it comes to economics.
We don’t have VAT in the US and we don’t track sales tax. This is from two sources. Immigrants that can use a tax ID number, and immigrants that cannot but still have taxes withheld from their paycheck. So the only effect is they can’t get a refund.
Holy shit you guys have sales tax? Really living in the 1800’s there.
Imma go ahead and say the income tax & VAT combined don’t equal 97B.
Additionally, imma guess immigrants took out much less than the 97B they put into the system.
Fact check me.
That’s not how fact checking works.
Someone’s made a stupid text on image post incorrectly comparing things and didn’t even back that up.
Here’s the study. Robert Reich is a former Secretary of Labor known for pushing worker’s rights. He’s generally pretty credible.
Funny how that person responded to everyone except for you. You being the person who provided evidence that likely proves them completely wrong.
Mustn’t draw attention to the argument that beats mine.
I guess that’s how fact checking works for them.
