When I stated that politics are not all about truth, I was referring to why you’ve been told lies by politicians. Maybe you should read it again to understand it. And now that you’ve been intellectually dishonest I’ll say have a good day. You’re very much a victim of propaganda.
If you’re just learning that politicians don’t always tell the truth, you should avoid doling out political advice for a while.
Jesus nobody said I was just learning this. Where did I say that? Nowhere.
At this point I’m certain you’re not reading a goddamn thing that I write, just waiting to write more. You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation and therefore a total waste of my time. Have a good day, troll.
I’m reading all of your vague irrelevant implications, they’re just completely immaterial to what we’re talking about.
they don’t matter, so I don’t care.
“You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation”
your claim is that Israel is not committing a genocide according to the definition of genocide.
you have no evidence to support your claim.
according to the definition of genocide, Israel is committing genocide against Palestine right now systematically persecuting their ethnicity, culture and nationality.
you have no rebuttal to the genocide and you have no evidence for your false claim.
That is not the case. They added an implied idea and attacked that part. It’s called a straw man in fallacy terminology, and this person is littered with them. They already misquoted once and attacked that as well.
If you need to read it again and again until you get it, eventually it will click. At some point I stopped replying to any of these because unfortunately, I am communicating in a precise way, and they are not capable or not willing to patiently read and understand what I’ve said. Maybe it’s not as well educated or studied, maybe English isn’t their primary language… I don’t know. But I realized that there’s no point because it’s like arguing with children; there are some things they just don’t and won’t comprehend - at least not accurately or precisely. And I know, yeah the reflexive instinct is to just start calling me arrogant etc. and that’s fine, I don’t really care. Sometimes someone is just not capable of understanding what someone else is saying, and they get angry and defensive, and call the other person whatever. But there really is no point in furthering the discussion. I was in their place many years ago, so I am aware of the point of view. Some day, maybe they’ll be wiser, maybe not.
Have a good day.
P.S. This really is just a courteous response because maybe you didn’t really realize any of this. But I’m not inviting further conversation because I was also recently reminded about the unfortunate demographics. Mostly very young, idealistic kids, often not very well educated, and nearly always so far to the extreme of liberal it literally turns my stomach. I’m a democrat and most of us hate what the new liberal has done to our particular image. It takes age and wisdom sometimes to realize you have a lot to learn. Everyone today from teen and upward thinks they’re an authoritative scholar when in fact, they’re just a smartass kid with a small amount of knowledge. The good thing is most of them if they’re too lazy to be bothered to learn before they speak, they’re usually too lazy to vote, too. That’s quite a relief.
History is important, having a first-hand wealth of experience is very beneficial, and will always be more useful than an ideology and being too impressionable for one’s own good.
Again, have a wonderful day.
This forum is all the better because it doesn’t have genocide justifying fascist scum on it.
You didn’t say anything that would make anyone think. You posted rants about how ignorant people who responded to you were while ignoring not just their valid points but all of their points.
You are a failure morally. You’re also a failure at arguing. You wouldn’t convince anyone that didn’t already agree with you in the first place. If you’re posting with the hope of having any impact on the minds of others I would suggest you don’t even bother. You’re just wasting everyone’s time.
Yeah your attitude makes sense to me. No worries. You somehow managed to get literally every assumption you made about me wrong. Congrats! It’s fine; maybe some people will read what YOU guys were saying, and be concerned that history is about to repeat itself because children who are the future would rather get their “knowledge” from YouTube than history books.
I don’t need you to agree with me, to respect me, or to actually understand the first thing about me. Others can read the hate and fear in all your words.
This is a genocide on an incarcerated population, within an Apartheid State, founded on Ethnic Cleansing, which is central to Zionism. Israel has no right to do any of those things. The only real solution is a regime change to a One-State Solution with equal rights for all Israelis and Palestinians.
Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction
that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
You’ve been duped and you don’t know it.
When I stated that politics are not all about truth, I was referring to why you’ve been told lies by politicians. Maybe you should read it again to understand it. And now that you’ve been intellectually dishonest I’ll say have a good day. You’re very much a victim of propaganda.
“You’ve been duped and you don’t know it.”
more vague fabrications?
not as convincing as you hope.
“I was referring to why you’ve been told lies by politicians.”
my evidence is from credible news sources with long-term reliability, not politicians, which you put too much stock in.
If you’re just learning that politicians don’t always tell the truth, you should avoid doling out political advice for a while.
“You’re very much a victim of propaganda.”
oh, more vague insults without any evidence?
look at that.
instead of making things up, try to address the points I’ve made.
you know, the very clear definition of genocide being perpetrated by Israel, going back half a century?
The actual relevant material in this thread.
you can continue making stuff up and sounding clueless, but exposing your ignorance isn’t doing you any favors so far.
Jesus nobody said I was just learning this. Where did I say that? Nowhere.
At this point I’m certain you’re not reading a goddamn thing that I write, just waiting to write more. You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation and therefore a total waste of my time. Have a good day, troll.
FYI you argue is terrible faith
“you’re not reading a goddamn thing that I write”
I’m reading all of your vague irrelevant implications, they’re just completely immaterial to what we’re talking about.
they don’t matter, so I don’t care.
“You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation”
your claim is that Israel is not committing a genocide according to the definition of genocide.
you have no evidence to support your claim.
according to the definition of genocide, Israel is committing genocide against Palestine right now systematically persecuting their ethnicity, culture and nationality.
you have no rebuttal to the genocide and you have no evidence for your false claim.
“Have a good day”
done and done.
They’re literally quoting you and responding to the literal quote.
You just don’t like what they’re saying.
That is not the case. They added an implied idea and attacked that part. It’s called a straw man in fallacy terminology, and this person is littered with them. They already misquoted once and attacked that as well.
If you need to read it again and again until you get it, eventually it will click. At some point I stopped replying to any of these because unfortunately, I am communicating in a precise way, and they are not capable or not willing to patiently read and understand what I’ve said. Maybe it’s not as well educated or studied, maybe English isn’t their primary language… I don’t know. But I realized that there’s no point because it’s like arguing with children; there are some things they just don’t and won’t comprehend - at least not accurately or precisely. And I know, yeah the reflexive instinct is to just start calling me arrogant etc. and that’s fine, I don’t really care. Sometimes someone is just not capable of understanding what someone else is saying, and they get angry and defensive, and call the other person whatever. But there really is no point in furthering the discussion. I was in their place many years ago, so I am aware of the point of view. Some day, maybe they’ll be wiser, maybe not.
Have a good day. P.S. This really is just a courteous response because maybe you didn’t really realize any of this. But I’m not inviting further conversation because I was also recently reminded about the unfortunate demographics. Mostly very young, idealistic kids, often not very well educated, and nearly always so far to the extreme of liberal it literally turns my stomach. I’m a democrat and most of us hate what the new liberal has done to our particular image. It takes age and wisdom sometimes to realize you have a lot to learn. Everyone today from teen and upward thinks they’re an authoritative scholar when in fact, they’re just a smartass kid with a small amount of knowledge. The good thing is most of them if they’re too lazy to be bothered to learn before they speak, they’re usually too lazy to vote, too. That’s quite a relief.
History is important, having a first-hand wealth of experience is very beneficial, and will always be more useful than an ideology and being too impressionable for one’s own good. Again, have a wonderful day.
This forum is all the better because it doesn’t have genocide justifying fascist scum on it.
You didn’t say anything that would make anyone think. You posted rants about how ignorant people who responded to you were while ignoring not just their valid points but all of their points.
You are a failure morally. You’re also a failure at arguing. You wouldn’t convince anyone that didn’t already agree with you in the first place. If you’re posting with the hope of having any impact on the minds of others I would suggest you don’t even bother. You’re just wasting everyone’s time.
Yeah your attitude makes sense to me. No worries. You somehow managed to get literally every assumption you made about me wrong. Congrats! It’s fine; maybe some people will read what YOU guys were saying, and be concerned that history is about to repeat itself because children who are the future would rather get their “knowledge” from YouTube than history books.
I don’t need you to agree with me, to respect me, or to actually understand the first thing about me. Others can read the hate and fear in all your words.
Again, have a very good day.
This is a genocide on an incarcerated population, within an Apartheid State, founded on Ethnic Cleansing, which is central to Zionism. Israel has no right to do any of those things. The only real solution is a regime change to a One-State Solution with equal rights for all Israelis and Palestinians.
Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism
Settlements and Occupation
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
Apartheid Evidence
Amnesty Report
Human Rights Watch Report
B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
Historian Works on the History
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)