Could be in any context. I do it a little on UFC fights but that’s a relatively low amount and I can afford I to lose any time I do. It seems like it’s becoming a really wide spread problem though, at least in the US. At the same time I don’t see why it should be illegal. Granted I also don’t think any drug should be illegal.
deleted by creator
Yeah Pete Rose and anyone involved with “fixing” odds in anyway are absolutely fucked. Part of what made me ask the question is how pervasive gambling sites/apps/books ads are literally everywhere.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Yeah I can agree with that.
I don’t do it because it feels like I’m throwing my money away.
I agree if you’re talking casino slots or pretty much any highly orginized “game” at a casino.
I do it a little on UFC fights
I agree if you’re talking casino slots
Now is your time to shine and become smarter.
I’m talking among friends usually only a hundred or two on big fights. I don’t have or use any apps/books. Or sometimes 5-10 per fight if I have a few people over. I also have barely missed any events in years so my bets are pretty educated guesses lol. Again, this is money I can afford to lose and is just between buddies, it’s still gambling/betting though.
Since I have a basic understanding of how odds work, I don’t do it because it is throwing my money away.
Gambling with any company is going to be negative expected value. However, I feel the same way gambling with individuals where the expected value is zero.
Not necessarily with sports betting though: Then you have a legitimate possibility of being more well informed than the bookies. A casino is mathematically rigged such that you will lose over time, that doesn’t apply to games of skill (sports).
I don’t gamble myself, but I seem to remember reading that the average person actually makes a net win in football betting (that is, more than 50% of gamblers are winning). Apparently, the betting companies make it up because you have a relatively small fraction of people that are losing big, and losing consistently.
That’s a common misconception. Sports gambling is exactly like casino games. Odds are skewed in exactly the same fashion in the house’s favor, the payout is lower than the win probability. In the long run, the house always wins.
Also, as the industry relies heavily nowadays on trading where any event can alter the odds in real time, I guess the only way to cheat the system would be akin to insider trading.
I think you’re misunderstanding my point. You’re completely right that the house sets the odds it it’s own favour in order to make money, I’m not arguing against that.
My point is that setting odds in casino games like roulette is trivial, and there are no confounding elements that can suddenly make your odds wrong. In sports betting, setting the odds is highly non-trivial and pretty much impossible to do exactly. The better can look at the odds and consider whether they think the house has under-valued a certain game, which is possible, and bet on that. If the better is more well informed than the house, it’s actually possible that they make a net win. That’s completely different from a casino game, where the odds will never be in your favour.
I would argue that sports betting is a fair game, in the sense that the house sets odds, and you can consider whether those odds are in your favour or the house’s favour. Obviously, they will try to always set them in their own favour, but (also obviously) they can make mistakes that are exploitable to a well informed better.
Unless I’ve got some insider information on specific athletes or I’ve done enough statistical analysis to gain a statistical analysis to gain an advantage over the house, I don’t see myself getting positive expected value.
Also, it is in the interest of sports books for a rumor like that to propagate.
it is in the interest of sports books for a rumor like that to propagate.
Oh, definitely. I’m not sure about this at all, please don’t take it as fact.
I completely agree with you. My point is just that with sports betting the playing field is actually fair, in the sense that anything can happen and that the bookies and the betters are considering the odds based on the same publicly available information. That differs significantly from games where the house is mathematically guaranteed to win in the long term, while the gamblers are guaranteed to lose.
Except that the payout for those bets are generally done so that the house takes a cut of the overall action. The vig is baked into the payout for sport outcomes; betting on all the outcomes equally isn’t going to probabilistically give you the payout equal to what you’d buy in.
betting on all the outcomes equally isn’t going to probabilistically give you the payout equal to what you’d buy in.
Exactly. That’s why I’m differentiating between games of skill (i.e. sports) and purely statistical “casino games”. It’s possible to beat the house in sports betting, but only if you are genuinely better than the house at considering the odds. Of course, the house will always try to set the odds in their own favour, but it’s impossible for them to know the exact odds. Thus, a well informed player can, in principle, identify the games where the house has under-valued an outcome and exploit those.
This basically boils down to the fact that in a casino game, the probability of every possible outcome is known exactly, so the house can trivially set a payout that benefits them. In sports, it’s impossible to know the exact probability of a given outcome, so the house can make mistakes.
Personally, I think it’s a total waste of money and addicting for some people. I don’t think it should be illegal, but I do think that corpo gambling should be. Sportsbooks and their ilk are cancer, and gambling should not be something you can easily blow all of your money on from the comfort of your toilet.
Yeah having it as accessible as an app is really dangerous for some people. Shocking how much damage you can do with just your phone now.
Yeah. I wouldn’t want heroin or alcohol to be able to be administered with a single push of a button, why let gambling be an exception? At least make people have to wait for delivery 😂
Thats reasonable lol
It’s fun but dangerous. My father’s gambling addiction derailed my college career, though admittedly it was already on shaky ground. I’ve forgiven him for that but his addiction and the damage it causes is ongoing.
So: not a fan of casinos.
What a horror story. So fucked up when you hear about that kind of thing.
It’s pretty stupid. Definitely among top 10 stupidest things humans have invented.
I wanna hear the other 9 lol
#1 and #2 are leaded gasoline and CFCs, respectively.
Oddly enough, both invented by the same dude.
Ironically I recently watched a like 2 hour video on that guy. Largest negative impact any human has ever had on the world and other humans (arguably I guess)
I don’t think betting on sports should be illegal. The problem is the endless advertising and the way sportsbooks have invaded and completely taken over sports coverage in the media. Feels like literally everything now is just about discussing under/overs and what Vegas thinks.
Call me crazy but I miss when sports was about sports.
Yeah I hate how agressive the ads are on everything.
You’re technically always losing because it’s in embedded in the programs and the host/casino/whatever cannot lose money. You have to be an idiot to be gambling.
Like most things in life, in moderation it can be fun. Adding some stakes to an activity can make it more exciting.
It becomes a problem when people don’t have the self-control to self-regulate, and when it’s designed to prey upon those people specifically, or to prey on desperate people who feel like it’s the only chance they have to get ahead, or who don’t have a good understanding of the risks or chances of winning.
Humans as a whole are bad at understanding probability, and our brains are wired such that the happy chemicals we get from winning are more impactful than the unhappy chemicals we get from losing. As such, someone can be losing money overall, but still feel like they’re winning, or at least, still get the rush from winning even though they’re way down overall. That’s dangerous, and gambling companies are designed to specifically target those people and exploit those destructive behaviors. It’s like the experiment with the rat that was given a button to give itself happy drugs, and it just sat there pressing the button constantly. Basically, the regulations are necessary because of capitalism, and because without them, those people would very quickly ruin their lives given the chance while the companies running the operation give zero fucks about it.
Then there’s the fraud. Look at prediction markets. They’re rife with fraud and bet fixing and it’s not only politicians and policymakers doing it. John Oliver had a piece on this recently where he goes into some detail, but there’ve also been articles about journalists getting harassed and threatened because they report on something that would cause a Polymarket loss.
In conclusion, some humans are shitty and we need regulations to keep shitty people from doing shitty things.
Yeah polymarket is such a strange thing conceptually.
Gambling is paying the idiot tax. Every game is rigged in favor of the casino (or whatever). On the long run, you lose and they win.
Yeah in regards to casinos and scratch tickets I’d absolutely agree.
Anywhere else, too. Companies earn money off it.
It’s just a bad idea in general that doesn’t actually bring any benefit whatsoever to our society.
People will always go on about “do what you enjoy” etc etc. I have no issues with people for the sample playing fantasy sports, which is gambling but for the sake of competition not for the sake of money (usually).
As soon as you start wagering things of value, or taking on bets with consequences which aren’t part of the fun, then it’s just a shit thing that will always result in someone being unhappy.
I guess that’s my real issue with it, by design if it’s something for enjoyment, why does it require someone else to be hurt? (even losing a small amount of money is by definition a meaningful “injury” to the person).
I would bet (pun intended) that the majority of fantasy football leagues have cash prizes. But it’s like poker: a game of skill with an element of luck, and the better players come out on top in the long run.
There are many types of fantasy sport that are not just fantasy football. Also, it depends where the cash prize comes from, is it from people putting money into a pot? Or is it from the league itself as part of marketing and players only stand to benefit and don’t stand to lose?
Another part of fantasy sport is that I think generally speaking, I don’t think it has a focus on winning the prize, it’s a focus on the entertainment value of the fantasy sport itself. Whereas the entertainment value of gambling is directly tied to winning.
A US state benefits from tax revenues. That’s why many of them have lotteries. Those help pay for public services (like education). I’d say that’s a benefit to society.
You’re right in wondering if it’s ethically acceptable, though.
Absolutely should be illegal. People will do it anyway, but there will necessarily be restraints on the way it fucks up peoples’ lives. Same as underage drinking.
What do you mean same as underage drinking?
The prior 2 sentences also apply to underage drinking.
I bet small amounts on NFL games when the season is active. $10-$20 a week.
I go to the casino a couple times a year with a set amount of money (usually $500), and if I lose that money, I leave.
I’m glad it’s legal. Some folks get addicted, and that sucks, but the same can be said about booze, prescription drugs, and even food. We don’t need a nanny state banning things because some people go overboard.
Yeah I’m a big proponent of letting people do what they will to themselves.
Im a victimless crime guy (I use the term loosely and am aware for anyone seeing the term that you can say the user is a victim or knock on effects) so like all this stuff being legal and have felt that way forever. I do want it highly regulated to minimize harm and I think it should be taxed higher than less harmful things. One thing I did not realize until legalization occured that advertising is really problematic with all these type of “adult” activities. So now I am a bit modified in my stance that I don’t think advertising should be allowed outside of the establishments themselves. So no roadside signs about a casino at the next exit and such. To see cigarette, alcohol, drug, prostitution, gambling ads you should have to be in one of those establishments to begin with which should not allow minors. So like kids should not be allowed in liquor stores or bars even with a parent. Things like casinos can have hotels where kids are allowed but no advertising for it there. It should be treated as a seperate business that just so happens to have a path to the casino.
