https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&modId=107790
Shouldn’t there be some sort of baseline of sanity for community moderators? This dude is straight up pushing non-stop propaganda of his flavoring and deletes anything that he doesn’t like of https://lemmy.world/c/latestagecapitalism the mod log is very transparent and if that’s not power tripping I don’t know what is.
Got removed because I said … even the tankies favourite daddy, Stalin … to explain what Lysenkoism was about.
Because “I called someone a tankie”.
that’s some real lemmy.ml shit here
Holomodor is literal Ukrainian nazi revisionist history that was pushed by pro nazi UN. Just because you’ve always believed “Stalin is bad”, doesn’t make every demonic lie against Stalin true, nor should it be permitted speech.
Holomodor is literal Ukrainian nazi revisionist history that was pushed by pro nazi UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_famine_of_1930–1933
Kazakhs reduced from 60% to 38% of the republic’s population; sedentarization of the nomadic Kazakh people
Russians did not just genocide Ukrainians.
Or Kazakh are also nazi who deserved it but it did not really happen?
Asking for a friend, dear.
So much focus on Ukraine, as if that’s the narrative Moscow needs. But never talk attack the Kazakh part of the genocide? I wonder why online commenters would behave in such way.
You’re literally a genocide denier
I’d have removed two of those comments just for attacking other users for calling them “tankies” and “cucks”.
But when I do that it’s because it breaks the civility rule.
This may be a case of the comments being removable, but the mod chose a poor reason to do it.
Cuck I agree should be removed, but calling someone a tankie is very different. It’s a term for a very narrow set of political beliefs. It accurately describes someone who claims be be socialist while defending authoritarianism and human rights atrocities.
It’s also, in this context, not being targeted specifically at another user, but in the abstract at the people making the argument in the post.
Call somebody tankie is against the comunity rules:
RULES:
1 Understand the left starts at anti-capitalism.
2 No Trolling
3 No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, or liberalism, liberalism is in direct conflict with the left. Support for capitalism or for the parties or ideologies that uphold it are not welcome or tolerated.
4 No imperialism, conservatism, reactionism or Zionism, lessor evil rhetoric. Dismissing 3rd party votes or ‘wasted votes on 3rd party’ is lessor evil rhetoric.
5 No bigotry, no racism, sexism, antisemitism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, or any type of prejudice.
6 Be civil in comments and no accusations of being a bot, ‘paid by Putin,’ Tankie, etc.
Soooooo…. In other words:
“Respect the wind-tunnel and preach to the choir or begone! There’s no room for disagreeing!”
They didn’t call anyone tankie - they referenced the type of people falling under that classification. Big difference from making an accusation.
May be, but “…what the fuck is wrong with tankies” clearly is not being civil in a socialist space (also rule 6).
I see tankie used far more as a pejorative Term for leftists (socialists, communists and or anarchists) than actually being used with any nuance to criticize authoritarian apologia One can draw parallels between capitalism’s failures and the successes of authoritarian socialist/ communist regimes without praising authoritarianism. One can also condemn authoritarianism while also acknowledging that one form of authoritarianism will be or is worse than another.
I’m a socialist, and I’ve never been called a tankie. It’s pretty simple if you don’t simp for Russia or China.
I’ve been called a tankie just for referencing communist theory.
My sleep meds are kicking in, so I’m not going to be able to give this a proper response. However, I just want to put this thought on record in response to your question.
The community itself should have the power to override the mods - at least to some certain extent, IMHO. Each community should have a meta channel of sorts wherein issues related to the community itself are addressed, such as disputes like these. I disagree that some single person or small group should fully “own” the community, and those who’ve invested time in being part of it should have no ownership or control over it whatsoever.
This thought probably isn’t the best articulated, but that’s why I’m going to bed now. Gnite, and I hope you all have a good discussion for me to read up on tomorrow. Thanks.
I don’t disagree. I think what you’re proposing is indeed a more truly decentralized model.
But ultimately the real world is where we need progress and as long as the internet (and language as a whole) exists there will be actors attempting to manipulate the narrative to their benefit by any means possible.
I do think democracy can be subject to manipulation regardless of ones ideals of altruism. Sometimes people are not adequately educated and then their input into a democratic system only serves to harm the collective. It may be time for new models of governance within society and communities wherever they may exist.
I see tankie used far more as a pejorative Term for leftists (socialists, communists and or anarchists) than actually being used with any nuance to criticize authoritarian apologia
Your view is incorrect. It can be both. There are people who will absolutely use tankie as a generic insult for “person on the political left”. But it’s also a specific term within leftist movements to criticize specific issues with other leftists (I.e., defending authoritarianism, an either-with-us-or-against-us mentality, unconditional love for the USSR/China, etc)
One can draw parallels between capitalism’s failures and the successes of authoritarian socialist/ communist regimes without praising authoritarianism
This is very true. But, by the latter definition I gave, a tankie would actually not do that. We’re having a conversation that has been had thousands of times before by leftist people about the more radical wings within their communities
One can also condemn authoritarianism while also acknowledging that one form of authoritarianism will be or is worse than another
By definition, one who has that level of nuance, would not be called a tankie. Now, obviously a user can just use the term tankie as a generic insult for “you leftist”, but that’s when nuance comes into play. Sadly, we’re are talking about instances that are very much incapable of such level of nuance.
Those are my thoughts as someone who was literally a member of my country’s communist party and left that same party precisely because of the issues I mentioned within the second definition. And based on my experiences, instances like Lemmygrad are absolutely that type of tankie.
It isn’t necessarily my personal view, its what I’ve experienced empirically throughout certain forum based internet spaces
It isn’t necessarily my personal view, its what I’ve experienced empirically throughout certain forum based internet spaces
Unless you ran experiments/collected data (in which case, I woul genuinely love to see that) to gather such info, your “empirical” data is just observation-based. In which case, it can be skewed.
I’ve noticed your account is relatively new. So of course if one were to hang out with centrists and/or on Reddit, the average experience would be unbalanced as the typical use of the term tankie would be viewed as “generic insult to a person on the political left”.
But on Lemmy I’ve noticed far more people using the term tankie accurately to describe a specific fringe of the leftist movement. The type of fringe that, for example, still defends the USSR no matter what and is incapable of criticizing authoritarianisms.
Having said all of this…welcome to Lemmy! Lol hope you like it here :)
I’ll tell you, my “empirical view” is that I’ve almost (if not absolutely) never seen it used against someone who wasn’t simping for China—or worse, modern-day crony-capitalist Russia. As though anyone defending Russian imperialism against the perception of American imperialism has any legs to stand on from a leftist’s perspective.
I almost never seen any moderates being called a Tankie. Only when they end up making apologies for said examples, or more recently for various terrorist groups like hamas. Granted, I’m just left leaning and stay out of economic philosophies but I’ve clashed a lot in political topics with the definitely Tankie heavy user base on here.
Moderates? you mean centrists? Leftists shouldn’t be moderate. A moderate leftist is a neo liberal and a neo liberal is a right leaning centrist pretending to be a leftist.
Also hamas inst a terrorist group its a liberstion resistance group. Israel was literally born of terrorism and nothing resembling radical islamic terrorism existed till the 1960’s before then from 1899 till 1948 we had the irgun hagannah palmach and lehi waging a campaign of terror responsible for dozens of violent attacks and murfering between 6 and 8 thousand Palestinian jews, Christians and muslims as well as british military personnel and other international citizens caught in the crossfire. Zionists are the true terrorists in this conflict. If you dont agree youre not on the left you’re a right leaning centrist making excuses for a settler colonial state guilty of war crimes.
Thanks for proving my point.
Not a fan of bringing up Hamas. They’re not especially relevant, because tankies and real leftists alike both stand united against Israel’s ongoing genocide and long-standing apartheid state. Hamas might use terroristic methods, but their cause is every bit as just as Irish republicans, black South Africans, and 18th century American colonists. Heck, probably more just than that last group, because the worst oppression they faced was a bit more taxes. (And I still think that their cause was just enough to be worth breaking free of the US through violent means.)
Every one of those groups used tactics that would be called terrorism today. And history looks back on them kindly. The smart thing to do is to be on the right side of history today, not wait until it is history. And the bare minimum you can do here is acknowledge that while it might be better if fewer innocent people were killed as a result of their actions, Hamas are, on the whole, the good guys in this scenario. And that, at worst, every action Hamas takes is one caused by Israel’s actions towards the Palestinian people.
I’m sorry but I’ll never look kindly towards Islamists & Jihadists who murder, torture and rape innocent people. There’s absolutely no justification for this, never, and I’ll die on that hill. You can’t call out Israel’s genocide while praising the other side, which wants to do literally the same thing - they just lack the means to do so. Their overlords in Iran show you how their state would look like if they were in power. Hell, Sinwar murdered his own people too, yet he’s the fucking hero?
Calling Hamas the good guys is just tone deaf and straight up deluded, but once more, thanks for proving my point.
I could see that, in general though, in my groups, ad hominem gets removed when reported.
But then each group is different. Still doesn’t justify the other 2 removals either.
Keep in mind that this community was created to replicate a community that was/is moderated basically the same way on Reddit. Mods on Reddit/Lemmy are basically dictators and they can do whatever they want. At least in this case the rules are clear–just avoid this community if you don’t find value in it.
Personally I think communities like this that ban or remove content based on genuine mainstream opinions and facts that don’t align with the dominant local narrative are of little value but that’s a broader discussion and would apply to many other communities.
“I reject your reality, and substitute my own.”
Obviously there are exceptions but the vast majority of moderators are fief lords stroking their own self worth.
It’s not really surprising when you think about the time they contribute, and the very few potential motivators. I think most people would enjoy moderating a community they’re passionate about but most people lack the motivation required to do it consistently.
I was really hoping it was a refugee community that formed from non tankies that were banned by R/LSC.
Yeah that’s some bullshit. This post is probably better suited to for [email protected] though.
db0 is part of them powertrippinbastards though.
How so?
He accused me twice of calling leftist fascists (which is funny because that would include myself) by completely twisting my words about some very specific case of left leaning extremistic views, the second time temp banning me. Then later he turned the temp ban into a perma ban by accusing me of abusing people over DM, which is even greater bullshit.
excluding the two DMs I tried to send out asking to stop the mod abuse, for clarification on that matter and why he’s having it out for me. No reply so far.Ummm. Not sure of you’re aware, but the messages are censored?
Well, yes. I’m not gonna dox the people in my DMs without permission without a good reason to do so. If he can give me specifics about who I allegedly abused through DMs then I can lay that specific convo open.
Then why post the screenshot at the point is my point?
I’m only asking because most people have said db0 has way less issues with mods (since they promote piracy), so I wanted to switch from .world to them, but then you say it’s bad but gave no evidence, just a completely censored screenshot that, well, is as useful as not posting a screenshot.
Because it refutes the ban reason given in the modlog.
showing 6 timestamps does nothing to disprove my suspicions either lol
It shows that I didn’t even have any DMs, let alone practice “DM abuse”. My messages would obviously be quite a bit fuller than that if that’d be the case, and in relevance to the ban reason also more recent.
I mean, you already edited the image tho… It’s not hard to just add more color matched blue at that point…
I want to believe because I want to know what would be the best instance to switch to, but the evidence you gave makes you less trustworthy than no evidence at all 😅
Other than db0, my other picks are solar punk and sh.it.just.works
Removed Comment I think that’s just because the same mod being one of the only few people posting there. My best guess is that his pendulum just swings a bit too far to the other side to the point where he’s sympathetic to those terrorist groups, like a lot of other leftists. by [email protected] reason: Leftists = terrorist sympathisers?
YDI from what i can see, sorry homie
Oh yeah? I can even prove the statement of this deleted comment in this very thread we’re in: https://fedia.io/m/[email protected]/t/1616032/How-are-mods-like-this-still-allowed-to-moderate-and/comment/8793062#entry-comment-8793062
Moderates? you mean centrists? Leftists shouldn’t be moderate. A moderate leftist is a neo liberal and a neo liberal is a right leaning centrist pretending to be a leftist.
Also hamas inst a terrorist group its a liberstion resistance group. Israel was literally born of terrorism and nothing resembling radical islamic terrorism existed till the 1960’s before then from 1899 till 1948 we had the irgun hagannah palmach and lehi waging a campaign of terror responsible for dozens of violent attacks and murfering between 6 and 8 thousand Palestinian jews, Christians and muslims as well as british military personnel and other international citizens caught in the crossfire. Zionists are the true terrorists in this conflict. If you dont agree youre not on the left you’re a right leaning centrist making excuses for a settler colonial state guilty of war crimes.
And that’s just one of probably hundreds of comments like these, or worse, that I’ve seen over the past months on here that justify murder & genocide. Many more directly calling for it themselves.
Do you even know the context of that comment of mine? It was about said mod removing a post about people glorifying Sinwar.
https://fedia.io/m/[email protected]/t/1324305/Reddit-On-the-death-of-The-Butcher-of-Khan-Younis
So again, tell me how it is deserved? I certainly did not equate leftists with terrorist simps.
I don’t need to tell you when your defense makes it quite clear itself lol
You don’t need to tell me because you either have no argument, or you’re part of the people who suck hamas dick and thus agree with the extremist side on here. Your lack of a reply would make me think it is the latter.
Well, it’s their community, ain’t it?!
If you go into somebody’s club, no matter how insane you think it is - say, a Flat Earthers Association, Pizza Is Best With Pineapple Club or some Church or other - and start hanging post-its all over the place criticizing their mad as shit beliefs, they’re absolutely entitled to tear them down and kick you out and they’ll even have the Moral High Ground doing it since your “right” to loudly be a whiny insulting bitch about somebody else’s beliefs doesn’t trumpt their right not to have loud whiny bitches insulting them in their space.
Now, if they went after you for your opinions outside of their space, then that’s a whole different mater and you would be in the right, but that’s not what you’re complaining about: you’re going into a forum called Late Stage Capitalism to indulge in some “tankie-baiting” and then turn around and whine to the rest of Lemmy about how moderators are such nasty people and shouldn’t be allowed to take down your tankie-baiting posts in an anticapitalist forum.
The simplest solution to this specific “problem” is for you to stop going into their space and act like a cunt there because you don’t like them. You can even block that forum if it makes you feel bad seeing a post from there in All.
Sorry mate but you just sound like a total wanker trying to find support from the crowd to get away with being a total wanker whenever and wherever you see fit.
This is both the power and curse of the fediverse: your instance is your own, but also everything you do is out in the open. There is no central authority. People can move around instances and communities (or create those themselves) if they feel unfairly treated.
The mods of that community don’t own .world do and they do have the power to remove mods that don’t follow general policy and abuse their power
Shouldn’t there be some sort of baseline of sanity for community moderators?
There should, but isn’t. I recently got into a mutually uncivil argument on the .ml world news community. A tankie kept abusively pestering me long after I told them to leave me alone and I made the mistake of voicing my irritation in stead of ignoring them.
While the tankie received no mod action, I was banned not only from that community, but also from the USA news community, the technology community and the fucking MEME community, in spite of none of them being relevant to the topic at hand (Chinese government ethnically cleansing Tibetans).
And it was Dessalines (creator of Lemmy and ml admin) taking time out of their no doubt busy schedule to make sure that some guy who commented on a post about China’s atrocities couldn’t upvote memes. Seemingly too busy to respond to my appeal, though, because of COURSE 🤦
So nah, when probably the closest thing to a “leader” Lemmy has is themself an unhinged tankie, there’s really no sanity required…
Woah, I think you just said the quiet part out loud.
And it was Dessalines (creator of Lemmy and ml admin) taking time out of their no doubt busy schedule to make sure that some guy who commented on a post about China’s atrocities couldn’t upvote memes.
With how they’ll suddenly mass-ban people I’m half convinced the mod tools many people ask for exist, but only on their installation, out of spite and enjoyment that only they have the power
The man is coding the preferred fedi reddit stack. It deserves that respect but yeah the rest is just an oponion!
My QoL has improved on Lemmy after leaving all the tankie instances and instance blocking
Unfortunately db0 is one of them powertrippinbastards and a dirty dirty liar on top of that.
cite specifics when doing accusations or get downvoted
https://fedia.io/m/[email protected]/t/1616032/How-are-mods-like-this-still-allowed-to-moderate-and/comment/8793226#entry-comment-8793226
I saw db0 justify daddy is always right related to another power tripping but you got some links?
The block button is your friend
Simply blocking is not the solution to this set of problems though lol
I recently got into a mutually uncivil argument
This is probably the test I see moderators fail the most. I’ve seen so many instances of users getting into flame wars and then a mod comes in only to remove/ban one side.
If one user says “I love Trump! Fuck everyone who doesn’t!” and then someone responds “Fuck you! You’re a fucking idiot if you love Trump!” and only the first comment gets removed for being uncivil, I think less of the mod. The mod didn’t apply the rules fairly. They just removed the comment they didn’t agree with.
I use that example because, if the mod removed the second comment but left the first, then people would be posting the modlog to [email protected] as an example of terrible moderation. I think even users can be biased towards moderator actions they agree with even if they’re not fair.
If you want something run the way you think it ought to be run, your two choices are to run it yourself or settle for what’s put in front of you by the people who have the time, energy and motivation to do that.
One of best features about Lemmy is that you can deal with abusive, power-tripping mods by switching to the same community in another Instance.
If enough people feel the same way you do, then THAT community will be become the “official” one (based on the number of subscribers) and the old community will wither and die.
Also, if your moderator is rejecting Wikipedia links as “propaganda” then they have no business being a moderator. Wikipedia is one of the last, best sources of information on the Internet that isn’t biased, corporate-sponsored bullsh*t. Those mods are either UP TO something or have been bonked on the head.
Since you’re never going to win an argument with a moderator with an agenda, you can save yourself a lot of drama and pain by moving to a community that is beyond their reach.
“Not biased” just means “biased in a way I agree with”. There is no neutral POV.
In the real world, reality is determined by objective facts, not by your “point of view.” You’re not Obi-wan Kenobi.
Wikipedia is incredibly non-biased. Wikipedia is also more accurate than Encyclopedia Britannica.
Wikipedia is one of the last, best sources of information on the Internet that isn’t biased, corporate-sponsored bullsh*t.
Instead it’s bullshit built upon elaborate bureaucracy which has it’s own layers of issues depending on exactly what topic/field we’re talking about.
The biggest and most obvious flaw being that it’s more or less explicitly designed to fail spectacularly as regards any topic that the media doesn’t want to talk about (for example, anything that might make the media look bad) because there’s going to be an intentional lack of “reliable sources” on those topics.
The definition of a “reliable source” is another - there’s a fair bit of jockeying on that which functionally biases WP. Especially when you start looking at what disqualified a given source from being “reliable” and start to notice that the bar seems to be set very unevenly depending on the particular source and how well liked it is by certain power-editors.
It’s good enough for anything that’s not politically contentious to anyone, but I would never use it for anything other than a vague overview and starting point for other sources to dig into.
OK that’s all fair enough. But isn’t this just a situation of humans being humans? Blaming Wikipedia for it is like blaming the United Nations for the lack of world peace.
Not saying you’re wrong, exactly, but I also think you don’t have an idea, realistically, of how to make Wikipedia function better on controversial subjects. I certainly don’t. It’s easy to bash Wikipedia, like it’s easy to bash the UN. In the meantime, cynicism is corrosive and Wikipedia is all we have.
Relies on enough people figuring out or getting enough issues with one community to actively do so. How often has this actually happened?
You see internet exodus happen, I think Lemmy makes it easier
It’s currently happening with [email protected] which is splitting off from [email protected].
A couple months ago a few communities moved off of lemmy.ml.
The trekkies did something along these lines a while back but I don’t follow that…
Is there a Lemmy app that can show the same communities from multiple servers on the same feed? Like all subscribed news@‘s in one?
https://lemmyverse.net/communities
This will show if the community is duplicated across multiple instances. I don’t know if it’s specific enough for what you’re looking for.
Goddamnitalltohell I was hoping the Lemmy version of LSC wouldn’t get taken over by tankies too. Oh well.
“Why do they allow these people to gate communities on this website that allows just anyone to create and moderate communities??!?”
Don’t comment in spaces where you don’t respect the mods. You’re just wasting your time. It’s not like you have an inalienable right to an audience.
Defending genocides isn’t an LSC interest. The reddit LSC had this problem too. Tankies got into the mod team and started banning people who pointed out that China and Russia are also problems in Late Stage Capitalism. Effectively turning the sub into an anti Western community despite it’s rules. Not because of its rules.
I said it before, I’ll say it again. This is why Lemmy deserves to remain a niche.
Not all communists are tankies.
No, fuck you.
