Presidential pardons are one of those incredibly stupid things that show in the end America just wants a king.
They do arguably have a point to existence I think, in that it is virtually impossible to create a completely ideal set of laws, and so there are always going to be cases where a person is technically guilty of breaking a law but hasn’t done anything that punishment is appropriate for, or who is probably falsely convicted but has failed to prove it and run out of appeals and resources. They have a serious potential for misuse, but literally any power does, electing the kind of person that would misuse them will always cause problems of some kind.
Then pardons should at minimum be the purview of the Senate or House, instead of a single person.
I think the rationale is that, when it’s a single individual, they can’t pass the buck or blame the group. It’s a final appeal at a human level.
The trick is not electing a troll.
That’s how it effectively works in most of the Western world. The head of state usually issue pardons but on advise of the government (especially in countries where the head of state is not the head of government) or an independent comission.
In the end chaos always remains in power.
He laying the groundwork to be president again. He’s showing that people that try to overthrow the govt again has his support.
I realize this is probably a silly question, but can he even do that? The power of pardon only extends to federal crimes. The state of Michigan could still press charges and there is fuck all Dumb Dumb can do about it. Unless I miss something here.
(This is ignoring whatever his cronies at state level can do to obfuscate the situation of course)
You are correct. Typically you don’t see crimes charged at both the state and federal level, but they’re not exclusive.
I’m not sure if you’ve been paying attention but he seems to be able to do whatever he wants.
Do you know how many times I’ve seen on Lemmy reddit, Facebook, etc people claiming 'he can’t do X! He doesn’t have the legal power!" Only for him and the people that support him, to do just that.
If he doesn’t have the legal powers to do this, he’ll pressure the people who do.
I’m not sure if you’ve been paying attention, but federal courts have been stopping him left and right. The most common situation has been Trump signs an EO or takes other action, federal court blocks said action, administration whines and moans but is forced to go along with the ruling.
You can count on one hand the times this administration has successfully ignored a court order.
You can count on one hand the times this administration has successfully ignored a court order.
That’s still one hand too many.
Good thing the funding bill removes all funding to enforce injunctions…
You can count on one hand the times this administration has successfully ignored a court order.
Oh well in that case, there’s nothing to worry about!
It’s amazing how successful he’s been at lowering the expectations for the office. For a Republican, at least. I’m certain, if a Democrat is able to become president again, that bar will suddenly rise back up.
They’ve also been ignoring those judges. I 100% believe, especially with the immigration stuff, that he’s still carrying on what they ordered the administration not to do, only quieter.
The most high-profile case of ignoring the judges has been the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case, where the ruling came when he was already en route. The courts have also said the administration had to take all reasonable actions to facilitate his return, or words to that effect, which they’ve surely not done.
Aside from that, in what other instances have they successfully ignored court rulings? I’m sure there have been a few, but not many.
In regards to this particular thread, a pardon of state crimes doesn’t mean anything because no one would listen to it. States run themselves when it comes to criminal justice. Short of marching the military in and causing an actual civil war, there’s no method for enforcing that.
It’s important not to doom. Despair is the enemy. Stay positive but stay vigilant.
It’s important not to doom. Despair is the enemy. Stay positive but stay vigilant.
It’s not “doom” it’s being honest and real about our current situation.
People need to realize what is happening to their country, and as of right now, my experience in the real world has been that most people have no fucking clue. Like, to a startling degree.
Pretending everything is ok just keeps them out of the loop longer while these people literally destroy our country from the inside.
Maybe if people/the media were reacting appropriately to what has been happening, people would actually be aware. And “staying positive!” is not an appropriate reaction to what is happening.
I’m extremely pessimistic with what is happening in this country, so no, I have not been paying attention, because he’s gonna get what he wants. I guarantee it. Been watching politics since the 9/11 days, and if its one thing the Republicans are good at, its being persistent after everyone has lost interest, media, voters, etc… And they just steam ahead with whatever horrible plan people were trying to reject through votes, courts, etc. After all the attention has died down.
If he doesn’t have the legal powers to do this, he’ll pressure the people who do.
If they’re charged at the state level the “people who do” is Democratic governor Gretchen Whitmer. You may recognize the name as the person they plotted to kidnap.
can he even do that?
I don’t see anyone with the guts to stop him.
It depends on how the state charges against them were dropped. Basically, the state can say why they’re dropping charges. In many cases, the state won’t bother charging them if the feds have a good case. In these cases, they often drop the charges without prejudice, which is basically the state going “we’re dropping these charges because the higher courts have you, but we can open the case again if the feds bungle it.”
In contrast, they can also choose to drop the charges with prejudice. This is usually what happens when the state doesn’t believe they have enough evidence to bring to trial. Basically, it’s the state going “eh, we won’t bother with this again in the future.” So if the charges were dropped without prejudice, then they could potentially be opened again.
I’d actually be curious to see if the pardon can be used against them, because US v. Burdick ruled that accepting the pardon also requires admitting that you are guilty of the crime you’re being pardoned for. The dude wanted to selectively refuse the first “I admit I’m guilty of this crime” part of the pardon, but accept the second “and accept the presidential pardon” part. The court ruled that the person being pardoned can’t accept the pardon without also admitting guilt. Lorrance v. Commandant USDB ruled that a presidential pardon doesn’t override habeas corpus, meaning the people would still have a right to a trial… Basically, the government wanted to take a dude’s presidential pardon, and use it to say “well he already admitted guilt, so we can just jump straight to sentencing. No need for a trial.” That got shot down. But it’s unclear whether or not that admission of guilt can be used against them during said trial.
Stochastic terror at its finest… Think about what the underlying message of this is.
Weren’t 12 out of the 14 people plotting this working for the FBI? Like…a dozen agents were entrapping 2 guys?
Congress should get the ball rolling on repealing pardon power
Doubtful. Most of them are going to want a pardon for their complicity in the destruction of America.
It is a long shot, and would take forever, as with all constitutional amendments, but political winds can change. Maybe 10 years from now things will be different and it would get through 3/4ths of state legislatures requirement.
I bet she feels great about being his buddy last time he was in town.
