For a while now the transition away from Manifest V2 (MV2) to MV3 has been on-going and it looks like it is entering its final phase of deprecation, at least, in the case of Google Chrome. A recent discussion thread in the w3c WebExtensions Community Group GitHub repo has highlighted how the latest and upcoming versions of the most popular browser are expected to be its final releases with support for MV2 extensions.
What this essentially means is that the tricks and bypasses that were used to keep MV2 extensions like uBlock Origin and others alive will not work any more on Chrome, or at least not for very long. For example the Windows Registry mod that could extend MV2 availability will cease to function after Chromium version 151.
Librewolf gang rise up
So many people asked “Why not Opera?” When I jumped off the AI browsers.
This. This is why. Didn’t trust em.
I don’t think it’s a matter of Opera being untrustworthy as much as it is the fact that they’re a Chromium-based browser, same as Edge.
Lets see if Brave will hold. Im gonna keep sticking to Firefox tho
Man up and take your spyware like an obedient peasant
The enshittification is going on overdrive I see…
Great… I work in IT so this means MORE “virus” calls because you 100000000% need an adblocker on the web to stop those fake “your computer is being hacked” malicious advertisements from websites.
Zen still works beautifully. The only downside I’ve come across is that there isn’t a mobile app, so the ability to hand off isn’t there.
The browser wars have been kind of strange from the perspective of someone who’s been using Firefox for well over a decade. It’s a bit like hearing about the Civil War while living in Oregon.
i used opera for around 13 years. i knew about the flaws but i was simply used to it, and as long as adblock worked i couldn’t be bothered to switch to anything else
then my laptop broke and only that happening gave me the incentive to install something else, i was starting from (close to) scratch anyway
it’ll take a lot of effort for people to abandon what they know, even if they’ll be moving towards something better
i use Zen now :) it’s nice
Another zen user, good to hear!
Where is ladybird browser? They should just release it
In the past, origin has just changed to work again. Is that out of the question now?
Oh look all the “chrome but in a different outfit” browsers are doing the same terrible shit? What a shocker, no one could have predicted that the many many things all on the same base where actuality just fake competition.
God it still pisses me off what they did to my boy Opera. All of us left when they diverted after v12. We all saw this coming.
Then Vivaldi came which I have tried in quite a while but it sucked. Firefox it is.
I like Vivaldi except for two things: it uses the same engine as Chrome so facilitates Google’s stranglehold on web standards, and it is closed-source. For functionality and design it’s one of the best, but those are important downsides.
Chrome is death to a browser, there is little reason to exist if google gets to make the big calls.
What about vivaldi sucked for you?
Firefox has webserial support now. I no longer need anything chromium. Let them rot.
Where oh where is my PWA…?
How about bluetooth support? Has that been fixed yet?
What is it used for?
Communicating with external devices via USB or the old D-Sub connectors.
Printers, microcontrollers, instruments, etc… Directly instead of through the OS.
Notably, ESPHome Programmer uses it for flashing ESP32s wired. Other companies like Solo Motor Controllers use it for delivering a user GUI to customers that is always updated but that can switch between versions instantly for production without having to having to deal with window’s broken method of having to manually search and download .exes for every program.
I had to use Brave earlier this year to flash firmware onto a Meshtastic device. It’s good to hear that Firefox has that option now.
never heard of it till now. neat!
Even grapheneOS use it for adb into your phone to flash the images.
webserial
they use WebUSB in GrapheneOS
It does? Guess I can finally yeet Chromium from my machine then.
Really? Holy shit I can switch to zen fully at work and at home and uninstall chromium. Webserial was literally the only thing I needed
Yeah its a real surprise. :)
They are all chrome with google scratched out and their name written in sharpie in its place.
Of course they are all doing it, cause they are all the same thing.
They don’t even try to pretend to fight it.
because theres no fighting google.
Microsoft tried, and google won, which is why Edge became a chrome reskin instead of what it was before.
Everything dies.
Yeah, but the worse they are the longer they live apparently.
Luckily, that’s something you can change!
To avoid a visit by the FBI, I will say no its not.
The winning move is not to do business with them, don’t compete just exist and pretend they don’t exist. Microslop played the game and lost, but it is a stupid silly game.
kinda hard to do when google holds the internet by the balls. and can twist at any moment to get what they want.
Microsoft and Mozilla employees have both accused them of doing this in the past, to sabotage non-chrome browsers on google services, to make chrome look better and drive users to chrome.
They only ‘hold the internet by the balls’ if you are using and reliant on Google products.
There are hundreds (if not more) tutorials and lists online to guide you through degoogling
I’m sure we can get thousands of websites and every major corporation to degoogle cause you said they should.
News to me, Does google hold this site by the balls? They have a lot of power yes, but they are not some unsinkable boat.
Microsoft “tried” about as well as a quadraplegic “tries” free climbing
All the FF forks are the same. Soft forks.
Pale Moon is not a soft fork.
Define soft fork
Can hold spaghetti but not a meatball 😔
It’s a damn shame, I’ve always liked Vivaldi otherwise. I’ve been dual running Vivaldi and Firefox for years now, Vivaldi for casual browsing and Firefox for more serious stuff + YouTube.
Oh well, it’s time to do a full switch, I guess.
Kinda funny, I’ve been doing the exact same thing with Win/Linux for approximately the same length of time. Needed Win because of dome software that just doesn’t work linux, and sadly, I still do.
Google and Microsoft can go fuck each other with a frozen cactus for all I care.
The folks at Vivaldi have been doing some work on their internal ad blocker, I think with the intention to bring most of the functionality of uBo internally so that it doesn’t have to be an extension. Not sure how far along they are, but maybe they’re intentionally keeping it quiet.
Vivaldi have earned and deserve a lot of trust here I believe. All my chromium eggs sit in their basket.
Same here. I’m an Opera refugee so to say (and I had high hopes for Opera actually). I’ve been using Vivaldi since its first public alpha/preview/whatever they were calling it.
Yup, Vivaldi user for 8 years and it hasn’t let me down yet, but this post is troubling news.
Aye, I’m just not sure how it’s going to play out. One can hope, though. It’s definitely one of the best options Chrome-wise either way.
I’m wondering what the decision making was when they were starting (which is now 10 years ago already, time flies, yo).
From today’s perspective, a Firefox fork sounds way more logical. Back then maybe things with Blink/Chromium weren’t looking so grim, maybe they were relying on the experience of that part of the team that moved over from Opera…
10 years ago Google was trusted and liked. The cracks were starting to show, but we’re talking about the Google that was still open sourcing a lot of their products and loudly opposing government censorship of the internet.
When will marketing people figure out our generation views ads as hostile, non-consensual, and unwanted? They are a negative way to introduce us to your product/service. I actively avoid things with obnoxious ads. Native, old spice, liberty mutual, all of those brands the first thing that comes to mind is the negative experience of an invasive advertisement I never fucking asked for.
Ads aren’t always there to get you to buy something specific. In fact, an ad you don’t interact with is a better ad because they don’t have to pay for click-through.
You don’t want to buy brand A because they have ads, so you buy brand B instead, but both widgets are owned by the same holding company. Or they’re made in the same factory. Or they use the same components. Or they have the same shareholders. Any way you slice it, the same rich assholes are getting your money.
The goal of the Ads is to put a bug in your head and get you to buy something.
And that’s just the Ads. The tracking is also (increasingly primarily) about political manipulation and surveillance.
Because it works and makes them money, and people end up buying the products.
What they really need is an option to leave ads or remove them. The ones that want ads gone aren’t buying your product, and the ones that like ads like to see new products. Just give us options. The options are usually to pay for the service and get no ads, or get the service for free and you get ads.
Where people get mad is when you have to pay for an ad supported plan.
All this doesn’t really work in the real world anyways, because YouTube offers both an ad free plan, and a free supported plan, and yet everyone still complains about having to pay for ad free. So the war continues.
Btw i pay for YouTube premium, and every ad free streaming service because i support the ad free plans and hope they continue to exist.
Except we are not customers, and it’s the customers that are important. I’s like cows asking between themselves when will the butcher realize that they do not like being killed for meat.
Butcher knows, but butcher doesn’t sell comfort to cows, he sells meat to customers.
When will marketing people figure out our generation views ads as hostile, non-consensual, and unwanted?
Who knows. I was at the beach this past weekend and there were two different planes flying ad banners in front of me.
What the fuck. That’s two different local businesses that I have noted I will actively avoid.
Can’t even unplug and face a clear sky without getting ads shoved in your fucking face.
It doesn’t matter how we view them as long as they work.
Pretty sure all generations feel the same way.
What generation?
They’re too busy milking the boomers for now (and even then, the smart ones also despise ads already)
people still use chrome?, with all thier bs with adblocking and incognito like almost 7 years ago.
You over estimate the average person’s intelligence 😉
it’s less about intelligence and more about just not caring and being numb to ads
The amount of people I see use spotify and youtube with ads and just don’t feel or see anything wrong with this really disturbs me. People don’t realise the psychic damage they inflict upon themselves, they don’t see the issue.
When these PC illiterates open their browser it always looks like a casino, it’s crazy 🤣
I always ask them “what is this, do you want to see ads for underwear, why don’t you have ublock?” It’s always something like "doesn’t bother blebe"🙄
Still? It has like 95% of market share.
“Only” 70%, though of course the point stands.
That could also be incorrect, my ff pretends to be chrome running on windows, to minimize digital footprint.
I only used Electron or CEF apps usually.
High time to leave that ship if you have not done that already.
Cue the Brave shills “recommending” to switch to Brave in 5…4…3…
Wait what’s wrong with Brave?
Brave is by a company who’s in the business of serving ads.
Much like google was back in the day, they’re trying to obtain market share with a product that they can easily manipulate after the fact and rely on people not jumping ship as things get progressively worse and worse bit by bit
Think of the “approved ads” era followed by the “enhanced security features” which made it so your block list couldn’t be updated at a moments notice and now it’s being stripped entirely.
Better to avoid it entirely and just use Firefox or a derivative thereof
It’s not firefox
Firefox doesn’t have tab groups on mobile
“Firefox doesn’t have this one feature I like so I will keep using browser made by an ad company. I’m sure there will be no consequences long term”.
Google Chrome is killing all uBlock Origin
“Oh shit. No one could have predicted this!”.
You may have a browsing addiction if you need tab groups on mobile, wow…
I swear I hate tabbed browsing, because it leads to people hording tabs like a freaking squirrel hordes nuts.
If you need it for later, book mark it.
If you’re done with it close it.
Bookmarks in mobile Firefox is another issue. Bookmark management is a massive chore. I end up keeping tabs around a lot longer in mobile just to avoid messing with it.
On desktop Firefox with the Bookmark Tab Here extension (native functionality I missed from Chrome), bookmarking and organizing a new page is just two clicks. I use that workflow extensively. Apparently I have over 7000 bookmarks all organized that way.
This doesn’t work when I have memory issues. That tab is open as part of my external system of memory for myself so I know what I was trying to do before one of my several issues prevented me finishing.
Those are my emotional support ‘∞ tabs’, thank-you very much.
I might need them.
Added to nightly somewhat recently.
It is also chromium based, so stands to get the same nerf.
Yeap, just a matter of time.
Nope, Shields are built into the browser itself, not as an extension which uses those APIs. [1]
I would argue that if you’re choosing between chrome and brave, brave is still better.
Sure. Probably. But why are we choosing between Chrome and Brave?
Is a two party system not capable of approptiately responding to the needs of the people within it?
People entirely blind to the idea that they can just choose something else instead of 2 piles of shit, one of which has a cherry on top and was sprayed with perfume recently.
Its like some sort of awful american tradition at this point.
On iOS you can go on pornhub on brave and it blocks all the ads and cookie popups.
That’s one reason that uh… “someone” might use brave.
Because Firefox is a different engine and might not work well with certain websites.
My real issue is as a dev of a web application, using Firefox makes things occasionally render differently. It’s only once in a blue moon but enough to make me just accept using Vivaldi to be closer to the defacto user experience. And then I can’t be bothered to switch between FF (I use Zen) and Vivaldi and split my bookmarks, extensions, logins etc. it just doesn’t make sense.
I’ve only ever encountered one website where Firefox didnt work.
and that was because the website was coded maliciously to reject firefox… a plugin to make it think firefox was chrome and suddenly it ran fine.
Couldn’t use just set the user agent?
Well I did, the Amazon Prime Video has many weird behaviors on Firefox compared to the Chromium engine, even YouTube used to have before.
Any web developer knows it isn’t as simple as “code once, work everywhere”. If companies don’t test on Firefox (which is a reality nowadays given its small market share) bugs happen in very weird and unusual ways.
Only issue I’ve ever had with Amazon Video was the fact they artificially limit resolution to 320p for people on linux, regardless of browser.
For a lot of people, it’s an easy transition.
DDG, Vivaldi, etc. harder transitions.
Firefox for my parents would result in calls every 3 days for sites that aren’t working right.
I’m just saying perfect is the enemy of good.
Firefox for my parents would result in calls every 3 days for sites that aren’t working right.
Very difficult to believe. I have had issues with Firefox over the years but in every sing[e instance it was a resu[t of my custom setup. The browser has no major compatibility issues out of the box. I think it’s way more likely your parents are technologically illiterate and confuse other problems or gaps in their knowledge as issues with the “new” thing (in this case, the browser).
After seeing all the people talking about Vivaldi in this thread I figured I’d try it out…got to the “Panel” setup page, saw there’s one for reddit, maybe I’ll try adding lemmy.zip…
Failed Cloudflare check in panel, but it worked in a tab…okay, weird.
Thought about checking out Kagi since now privacy is on my mind…the front page would reload every 5 seconds so I couldn’t read about it. It’d say “Verification failed please try again” and refresh.
Apparently this has been an issue with Vivaldi for some time? I guess this is the future of the web? You try to escape the claws of these giant internet powerhouses and they just…don’t let you?
Firefox for my parents would result in calls every 3 days for sites that aren’t working right.
Sorry, what? If they are so tech-illiterate that they have to call you and ask why the website is not working, then what kind of web sites are they visiting?
Been using FF since 2022 and the only sites that wont work are the ones that utilizes HID. Are your parents trying to flash custom firmware for their phones though browser every third day?
Good for you. I’ve been in tech for over 16 years and FF absolutely does not work well on ~25% of websites.
Been in tech longer then that (if for some reason we are doing that now) and I will officially call bullshit on that claim.
I get it that tech people stumble upon these sites much more often than non-techies. My point was that if your parents are having website issues every other day (which implies they are not tech-savvy), then why would they even visit sites that are not FF-compatible. How many sites out of all the web do you think are not compatible with FF? Give an example of a normie site that wont work well with FF.
On the other hand, if your parents are tech-savvy then why would they ask you why a website wont load properly? Do you get it that your statement counters itself?
Wait, really? The access cripplers are crazily powerful add-ons for the paranoid, like NoScript, not the browser itself. Like what example websites, specifically?
Wanna link those websites so we can see?
calls every 3 days for sites that aren’t working right
Sir, 2000s called and asked you to return this argument back.
What sites are those?
Websites that are actively malicious against firefox, that miraculously work when you have a useragent plugin that makes firefox report that its chrome proving that the site works fine, if the asshole code is removed?
I think this is when @[email protected] will discreetly not answer or otherwise avoid mentioning the exact websites… (Because there are none)
Yup mostly because I don’t care anymore. You’re all stating the, “it works on my machine” mantra and I don’t care. See my other comments for some examples.
It’s true, unfortunately. Not every 3 days, but once a month I encount these sites.
Change the icon on the desktop to the chrome pinwheel and they’ll never know the difference.
Brave has a certain distasteful reputation earned by repeated unethical fuckery. If you are fine with what brave does, you have no reason to avoid chrome in the first place.
So Brave is a good answer to an absolutely terrible question?
Nothing.
Remember that article awhile back about the FBI recommending you use an adblocker?
That means even the FBI recommends you don’t use Google and Microsoft browsers anymore
Fine. I propose we create a proxy for hostile web browsers. Install the proxy on your device to run locally. Browser tells proxy to fetch the page. Proxy unfucks it before handing it over to the browser. Someone likely already has something like this out there somewhere.
If they want to turn this into an arms race they absolutely will lose.
Basically pihole which blocks adverts at the DNS level so they don’t even connect to their servers at all.
So long as they get paid while the ship sinks, they don’t care.
Why give a shit about the digital commons if it isn’t making you, specifically, money hand over fist. Short sighted idiots.
I actually believe this is an unwinnable scenario for clients. Just whenever the block app/db updates, automatically check if ads are blocked. If they are, have an engineer or AI iterate until it no longer is the case.
And the reason why blocking solutions can’t do the same is that there’s cery kittle money in it and not enough people working for free on it. Or that’s atleast my hypothesis…
